Jun 13 2007
Supporters Of Immigration Bill Open To Stronger Measures
Just look at the tireless efforts to find compromise by the supporters of the immigration bill:
Negotiators also were considering harsher penalties for immigrants who overstay their visas or re-enter the country illegally, according to Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
“If you had mandatory jail time†for such offenses, Graham said, “I think it would create a deterrent.â€
Another possible amendment, he said, would prohibit employers from participating in a new temporary worker program if they repeatedly break the law by hiring illegal workers.
All great ideas. But they will be dismissed by the far right. Because the “Amnesty” phrase in all their heated rhetoric is about providing a path to legal status for the 12+ million long term illegal aliens now in the country. These are good ideas broadly supported. Will the immigraiton hypochondriacs take these and finally pass the package? LOL! Well, if they ever wanted to prove AJStrata to be really, really wrong they would! If they lined up behind the bill with these additions (and no one is stopping them from making more suggestions later) then I will be wrong about them.
Excuse me if I am not too worried that I misunderstood the intentions of the obstructionists. When they use the term “Amnesty Bill” they are not worried about future violators….. We all know what that phrase applies to. It does not apply to border elements. You can’t give “amnesty” to a fence. It is not about future guest workers – they have done nothing yet to warrant “amnesty”. Same goes for anyone who commits a future infraction. The word is targetted at what is their big problem. They day they drop the phrase is the day I believe they are worried about some other aspect of this bill than the 12 million illegals here now (and it will be the day I will have to abandon my counter-phrase “immigration hypochondriacs”!).
Now contrast these sincere efforts with the KOS Kid wannabes at Free Republic. Calls of ‘liars’ and RINO and “gay cheerleader”. And people wonder why I am so happy to distance myself from these ‘people’? More far right bile here:
The other cabinet officer, Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, said that failure to pass the bill would hurt the economy. “We will see rotting fruit†in the fields, Mr. Gutierrez said. “We will see lawns that don’t get cared for. We will see patients who don’t get cared for.â€Mr Gutierrez, I can grow my own vegetables, mow my own yard and I don’t want a disease infested illegal taking care of me when I am sick!
So bugger off!
This is the core of the crowd. I don’t care if other people are not this bad, but they are aligned with them. That is like aligning with David Duke because you see his proposal in a different light than he does. But when you align with him you give him YOUR credibility. Or, more likely, he takes yours down to his level. This is the heat behind the opponents of immigration reform. It is a foul and ugly heat.
What’s really sad is that I’ve been seeing similar comments on Lucianne.com for the past couple of months. The general takeaway point of a lot of posts isn’t “make the system work” so much as it is “keep those disease-ridden creatures away.” And that sort of thing does suggest that racism, or something very like it, does play a part in some people’s thinking about immigration these days. (But don’t say that too loud, especially if you are a “Mex” like Linda Chavez, or people are gonna give it to you with both barrels, and nobody’s going to care even if you make it explicit from the first that only a small minority of people at the most might be so motivated.)
No, AJ, they are NOT the core of the crowd. The are just another version of the Cindy Sheehan’s of the leftist radicals.
While it would be good that visa violators were jailed, it would be even better if they were fingerprinted, their DNA taken and deported and a severe jail sentence made mandatory if they reenter our nation without permission.
And no, no employer who has ever violated federal law should ever be allowed to participate in the worker program.
Both good ideas.
But it doesn’t address the rest of the bill that is a travesty. Allowing for only 24 hours to complete a background check. Probationary visas for everyone who is currently illegal.
This bill needs to be scrapped and a new bill (without the flaws) created.
R05,
Oh yes they are the core! And I will post their wonderful thoughts and comments just like I do from KOS when I bash the Dems.
BTW – there are no perfect bills, no tooth fairy, no santa claus.
AJ, you can’t even admit when I, someone you consider the CORE, agrees with the items you listed. Nor do you have the cajones to apologize when you learn that I attended the funerals of three people killed by an illegal.
Stop treating me like I possess an I.Q. of 14. Most Americans do not even know who the Freepers are, nor do they care. But most Americans do know when they are being sold out.
R05,
Why would I apologize because you attended funerals? I missed those comments, but I have nothing to apologize for. I have sympathy for your losses and the families of those killed. I know who freepers are, and since they repressent a very strong core to the GOP on this issue I will let the world in on who is behind the opposition to this bill. Sorry of you get caught up in their mess – I didn’t make you align with them.
AJ,
Maybe something positive for the nation will come out of this after all. Hopefully. I have always been an advocate of securing the border first to protect the nation and stop the flow of illegals, then working on what to do with employers, a guest workers program and how to handle those already here. Mass deportations of all 12 million is unrealistic and will forever cause republicans to lose the hispanic vote, which will mean only one thing in the end, a majority control for democrats and a minority control for republicans.
In the end this would hurt the conservative movement more than anything because being in the minority means all conservative ideas will be stifled and passage of the conservative agenda would be thwarted.
I am saddened though that so many on the right have used the immigration fiasco to show their true colors, alienate many of us and cast an ungly stain of hatred on conservatism. Do these individuals that have led this charge think all will be forgotton and forgiven when the immigration issue is resolved someday? Many will hold them in less light because of their behavoir and should.
We can resolve this immigration issue with protest and debate but not with name calling or worse. I do not know how many times I have read conservatives calling GW and his supporters names such as RINOS, traitors or even called for GW’s impeachement over the handling of this. Is this how reasonable intelligent conservatives should act? No. Do I respect people who do this and trust their judgment to lead? Hell no. Elements on the right are NO DIFFERENT than those radical dangerous elements on the left. They are one in the same and should be treated as such and held in contemept by the majority of us.
OK, so now because AJ knows who the Freepers are, that means that ALL Americans know who the Freepers are.
Great logic but since you want to appear smarter than the rest of us, it stands to reason that you would have greater knowledge than the rest of us, right?
You should apologize because you were out of line. You said I would change my mind when my life was affected by the murder of someone I knew. Well it was, but of course, you did not say “oh, gee, RO5, I was a bit out of line and for that I apologize.” You ignored it totally.
And if you are worried about the Freepers and the GOP, I suggest you worry about La Raza and it’s influence on Teddy Kennedy who was in contact with them daily (according to his office) on the immigration bill. But maybe if we give Virginia to the Atzlan movement, they will leave my state alone.
“Just look at the tireless efforts to find compromise by the supporters of the immigration bill”
they are being forced on the supporters, thank god, by the broad coalition of americans who want enforcement first. if it was left up to you and yours the border would never be enforced. you were for this bill without ever having read it! the “supporters” are against these amendments but the goodies are to good to resist so they may go along. but you never know with dems and rhinos.
this is the beginning of the enforcement issues i have long told you were coming. they are the only things that matter. however, as with all enforcement issues, the participants will have to dragged kicking and screaming to the table.
all the other stuff is so much chaff in the wind. its the kind of stuff congress and presidents pass all the time, never to be enacted. ahh, but they do get to see their names in the bright lights.
Patrick that is way too funny! They are great ideas!
Only the far right can save the world I see!
Get a clue. Everyone is for strengthening the laws. All of us. Don’t pretend otherwise.
What we also want is the guest worker program and that nasty “amnesty” for those here (if they pay a fine, back taxes and are not criminals)…..
Why am I not surprised. Still making things up about others.
No R05, What I said is all Americans will learn who supports opposition to this bill. And I will show them the world of the Freepers – so they can see the truth of the GOP’s base.
Roonent1,
Sadly the delusion on the right is quite expansive. They actually believe the represent a majority view. And no, they do not care or they would have been more careful and stepped back by now. Conservative principles will now take two tracks. The moderate one where progress will be made and the extreme one which, like the liberals, will get more strident and smaller.
I do not know why they cannot control themsleves. But the damage is done and is deep. The coalition is over, for now.
you are going in that circle again, aj.
you are not nor have you been for border enforcement. those are the cliches you bandy about. the dems are with you on that along with bush. you guys talk, talk, talk, meanwhile the border stays open. the bill you support would continue that tradition. instant legality and no enforcement. just like the old days!
these are the kind comments you hide behind
“Only the far right can save the world I see!”
since when did 72% of americans make up the far right?
to repeat, the only thing that counts is border enforcement. that’s what i’m for along with the vast majority of americans. the folks who supported this bill without reading it were for the staus quo—no border enforcement. as they drag you kicking and screaming to this new bill keep your chin up. it gets worse in the house!
as for the particulars in the bill, i could care less. hell, give them all houses and a million dollars. what we want is no more of them coming. we trust that the american way of life will take them in as with all prior immigrant waves. the operative word being “wave”. with today’s tsunami america will end up looking like the sh*t hole known as latin america. in economics it called “bad money chases out good”.
ahh, the sweet chants of enforcement. little did teddy know what he set in motion! the silent majority has leaped to its feet.
Patrick,
Don’t lie to yourself – it is embarrassing. I have always been for border enforcement. Find a post or comment where I was against it. You can’t. That is so pathetic when you cannot even face the reality of what someone has stated for years now. OK, Patrick, you may return to your fantasy world….
your support of this bill as written and the history of border enforcement tells me and everyone else what you support.
LOL! Patrick – you simply cannot face the reality that people who support the bill support enforcement! They don’t call it ‘comprehensive’ for nothing.
And you expect this act of yours to draw respect?????
AJ
You might not know it, but the vast majority of all the enforcement trigger stuff in this bill are things that are already authorized under separate legislation that has already passed.
So other legislation is being used as mile stones.
The two largest NEW features of the bill are guest workers and zcards.
There is all sort of data pro and con for what the after effect of a guest worker program as implemented here will have.
For example there is no provision to adjust yearly quotas at all.
That could be improved with both a visa overstay offset to quotas and adjustments due to pending economic conditions of the economy.
You don’t need a mandated fixed number during an economic downturn.
it always does. the history of immigration reform shows no enforcement. the fact that “this” time you think there will be under the moniker (no pun intended) of comprehensive reform tells everyone what game is afoot. you are either hopelessly naive or you are in on it.
people who truly support immigration reform, the people who have tirelessly fought for it these last 30 years have always pressed for enforcement first. the fact that you, like kennedy want it after, tells us everything we need to know.
Just as a personal opinion, if the bill is passed, I believe there will still be a number of illegals outside the system (including new ones) who will be paid under the table to supplement zcarded workers to keep the feds of someone’s back because there will never be enough enforcement personnel to check the thousands of small businesses and farms and hotels to verify everybody.
Merlin,
Of course there will be outliers. The point is to make them the exception and not the rule, and have the ability to punish them.
There is not perfection.
LOL! yeah Pat – your a bloody immigration genius!
Dude, your arrogance is not backed up with anything. And you are another perfect example of the omnipotent impotence from the far right.
Geniuses in their own minds – superior to all who disagree.
We got your point St Pat!