Jun 08 2007
Man Battle Stations!
Just when the Immigration Hypochondriacs thought they had slayed the evil beast, news is out today that the beast may return in a few weeks and might actually survive:
Despite the fact that it was primarily Republicans who voted against the maneuver, all the GOP lawmakers who spoke with FOX News were upbeat that the legislation could be revived soon — even within a matter of weeks, with one negotiator noting that last year’s bill was first pulled from the floor by then-Majority Leader Bill Frist before it was brought back up again and passed.
Graham said he talked extensively with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and is confident the bill will return for senators to take another crack at developing a comprehensive plan to legalize millions of foreigners living unlawfully in the United States.
“I know where the votes are for final passage. … We’re going to get this done,” Graham said, adding that the topic is not going to go away. “All I can say is, if you name a post office, you’re going to be talking about immigration.”
“There are ways we can do this,” Reid said later. “There can be an agreement on the number of amendments. Hopefully we can do that in the next several weeks. We’re very close.”
It is time for the hypochondriacs to man their battle stations! They need to prepare for battle. I suggest they bone up on calling fellow conservatives ‘traitors’ (one of the more ironic and hypocritical weapons they use). Remember to use labels like “RINO” and “alleged conservative” on your so called fellow conservatives. Practice your calls that the world is ending as we know it. Recount how great the current system is and how it will work. Just remind everyone to use those broken down ‘existing laws’ and all will be right again! And remember, at every turn, bash the leader of this country and of your party. GOP – it is time for you to shine again…. Destroy Bush before he can do anything that might just do some good.
Ugh. Someone wake me when these people are done pissing up stream again.
Update: The Anchoress seems to be dealing with victory-bile from those honorable and mature immigration hypochondriacs. If there ever was an example of going over the cliff it is wishing ill will towards the children of a lady as charming as The Anchoress. I am with her – glad to be marginalized from that cesspool.
Terrye, what you, and AJ, don’t seem to accept is that there are good, and bad, people on both sides of this issue. While those of my view continued to ask pointed questions dealing with the resolutions and costs of this bill, we were solidly ignored. The questions put here were real. The concerns were real. The answers were non-existant.
Were those legal immigrants who were against the bill (insert proper derogatory name here)?? What we said, and others confirmed, was that this was a bad bill that did little new except provide for more convoluted amnesty. Amnesty is not the answer. Enforcement is and I see no indication from this administration that enforcement will ever be a priority when only 4 (read, FOUR) employers were prosecuted last year for their clear disregard of federal laws. We heard about the Swift raids. Did we hear about Swift, Tyson or any other company being prosecuted for clearly ignoring labor laws?
Yes, immigration reform will come up again, but it will (hopefully) deal with doing what is best for American workers and deal swiftly and legally with law breakers.
And you are wrong; those of us who you call “hardliners” want the issue resolved. We want legal immigration from legal immigrants who will contribute to our society, not drain from it. We want those who have a desire to be Americans, to become Americans. We want those with the Pan Am attitude of accepting corruption and law breaking as a way of life, to stay away.
You talk about the fear mongering on the far right. Did you consider McCain to be a far righter when he threatened riots in the streets like those in Paris?
A bill, designed in back rooms, not subject to the light of day should never survive. But hopefully, some good with come of this and we will enforce our laws and have an immigration program that benefits the United States of America, not the United States of Mexico, or any other nation.
That, Terrye, is the sole purpose of immigration. To make a nation better and stronger but it cannot be done if the immigration causes more problems than it solves. Don’t believe me? Ask France.
Someone at the Anchoress site claimed they’d vote for Dorgan before they’d vote for a Republican who favored this legislation. Which caused me to reflect, the famous and grand anti-Vietnam War Democrat-turned-Independent candidate for the presidency, in 1968, “leftist” Eugene McCarthy, had a tough line on immigration-tougher than Bush’s.
in order to have any productive debate on the issue of immigration reform, 2 extremely important facts have to be at the core of our thinking/debate. (IMHO)
1. Republicans do NOT hold the majority in Congress any longer (and personally, I don’t see them being the majority anytime in the near future)
2. From fact 1 we move to fact 2. There will NEVER be a bill passed that Republicans are going to agree with entirely as long as Democrats are in control of congress because (gasp) Democrats want a much more illegal/legal friendly bill than Republicans want.
with these two facts in mind, how do we proceed rationally?
Pleas don’t answer with “enforce the current laws”. That is no answer. The current laws are unenforcable. That’s why we need new laws.
anyone given any thought to what an immigration bill would look like if the democrats GAIN seats in both the house and senate AND win the White House?
now THAT is scary!!!
The current laws are unenforcable. That’s why we need new laws.
Doncha just hate it when that happens.
chuckle
Pierre,
You guys whine so much when you have to battle conservatives. Should I call you the whiny immigration hypochondriacs?
For people who applaud Anne Coulter and her ilk, you sensitive types manning the barricades against progress sure are touchy.
BTW – at least I don’t call people racist names like ‘towel-head’ like the venerable Coulter did. So, are we good on ‘whiny immigration hypochondriacs”?
Dale, have you broken the code yet on what I am up too.
AJ: sorry, not a clue!
But then again, if you are doing it to piss people off, and generate debate, and draw more traffic to your site, you’re doing a GOOD job!
Sen. Kyl coming up on Hugh Hewitt show (KRLA internet stream)
hehe…Well AJ in the battle between who calls who more names me or you I think I know who will win. I argue ideas, you back politicians and attack those who do not believe that particular lie being sold by that particular politician. I do not believe that Bush will ever enforce border laws…its not in him. That he is allied with Kennedy says a lot about the quality of that bill.
Battling conservatives? Moi? Not hardly…you though find delight in picking up your sword to slay the “far right”.
Regarding this bill being defeated by the Hard Right…not according to Rasmussen. But don’t let facts get in the way of your rant.
Mr. Legrand,
Awesome blog! I loved your post on the prisoner’s dilemma. I took the time to follow the link to “eject! eject! eject!” and read the whole thing. What a FANTASTIC read!
–begin quote–
Cheating in class (or getting a diploma without passing the required tests), cheating by crossing the border illegally, cheating by committing crimes and not paying for it, cheating by bribery and corruption, cheating in general rewards Screw the Other Guy as a social strategy and makes chumps of the people who need a level of societal trust – they need retaliation against Screw the Other Guy – in order to continue to cooperate. Society needs to retaliate against cheaters because not to do so flips the coin from cooperation to betrayal. And that’s the end of everything we have worked for and cherish.
–end quote–
I think I need to make sure I am following the tit for tat strategy.
And that answers another question that was brought up the other day about whether or not “Republicans should get down in the gutter and fight”. The answer is yes. We must do so. Not only to prevent ourselves from being annihilated. But also to eventually elevate society back to a civilized status where the rule of law prevails.
Fantastic read!! I can not recommend it too highly.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
ApacheIP
Strata’s “code” undoubtedly is in some way analgolous to
Nixon’s secret plan to get us out of Vietnam.
More from the same article –
“The biggest losers in our inability to control illegal immigration are the legal immigrants. What benefit do these honest people gain from playing by the rules? This is as clear a real-world example as you are likely to see of the lack of retaliation flipping a system from cooperation to betrayal.
And, by allowing this to happen, you also set a precedent, which I think is even more destructive: you are saying not only to the illegals but to the entire society that laws are for chumps. Cheaters win. How much of this do we need to be immersed in before everyone realizes the smart move is to flip from cooperation to betrayal? How much damage does it do when the very people sworn to uphold the law – uphold the rules that allow this amazing cooperation game to continue — are the ones who seem most enthusiastic to reward cheating? Finding out the cops are in on the crime is enough to drive even the most stout-hearted person to despair. “
I think I could make a solid argument that Republicans, in general (that is your “this a generalizationg” fair warning), practice tit for tat without even realizing it. I can point to the 2006 elections as proof.
Republicans almost always punish the elected Republican politicians when they stray. And we do so even when it will cost us pain. Republicans didn’t want to see the Senate and the House flip to Democratic control!! But even more repugnant that the thought of the Democrats in charge, was the thought of rewarding bad behavior, by re-electing the Republicans.
So we punished them. tit for tat
I haven’t observed this behavior in Democrats. At least not to the same extent that I see it in Republicans. We just don’t tolerate bad behavior. Whereas Democrats appear to have a “win at all costs” mentality.
Pierre,
I don’t call names. I paint pictures with words.
(broke the code yet Dale)? And you know what else I do? I let people show their true colors by letting them talk and talk and talk….
And prove my points for me by example. Calling someone a RINO is an act of purifying those pesty bad apples who disagree with the pure bloods. Now everyone knows the demeaning comments on the right are not to rally people to a cause, it is to label people who the cause cannot tolerate.
That is a great picture to paint. The essence of the flip comment. Just “hypochondriacs” who think everything is due to some disease, and think they are constantly in danger of becoming sick, and complain everyone around them how bad it is….
That too paints a nice little picture. Flattering? No. I was not attempting to flatter. But accurate. And damaging. And it will turn most people away from the immigration hypochondriacs because, when all is said and done, most people accept the guest worker program and the fines and reparations for being here illegally. And THAT is what bugs the daylights out of the whiny immigration hypochondriacs – the fact the illegals here now will get off with just a fine.
But now look at how the stage is set for the next round. We have the immigration hypochondriacs who are losing support on the right with their poisonous venom. They are being painted has obstructionists and unreliable partners. And they are becoming serial exaggerators too.
So what happens when these pictures start sticking? You folks cannot keep the immigration bill down forever and you cannot barely stop it now. In fact, I am a bit taken back by the confidence of the Senators and the President it will be back.
So the next round is coming sooner than I thought. But the stage is set. Did you think I was going to pay a price for the mudslinging and the inflexibility from the far right? Of course not. Every round the GOP takes another hit in its credibility and its palatability. Sooner or later it will suffer so many hits it will not be able to stop the good ideas from getting passed.
That is politics. I grew up amongst the best in the business. The labels will keep coming and the price the immigration hypochondriacs pay will go up each time. I know for a fact every moderate conservative I know has turned off talk radio. The well is that poisoned by this mess. Sometimes, to get through something you cannot avoid it. You just take it head on. We now talk with our moderate democrat friends about how bad both partisan fringe elements are.
The left and right are doing more to bring the center together than you could possibly understand. Repulsion of the fringes is knocking down barriers in the center. Remember the gang of 14? There is a lot more of that kind of thing going on now. Why do you think this Bill still has a chance? LOL!
People are not weary of immigration. They are weary of the rude partisans. Sen Kyle and others made commitments to the hard right. They kept their promises. Now they are free to put more pressure on them and isolate those too stubborn to allow progress. DeMint is now out of the picture and someone, willing to bargain with the President and McConnell, is about to step in to take his place.
If Graham says he has the votes and both leaders are saying this is coming back and is going to be passed – that is a huge alignment across the aisle. We will know in 2-3 weeks, maybe sooner. Something is happening, that is for sure. And I don’t think the far right can mount another credible character assassination effort on this matter. We shall see. But there will be price for failure every time we get the same result.
Apache et. al.: you’ve all GOTTA come over to the “Diyala” thread!
Raving maniac Leftist “Soothsayer”, has invented himself a dyed-in-the-wool Anti-American, Anti-Semitic, Pro-Jihadi Lunar Chiroptera Leftist Doppleganger Sockpuppet, named “THECENTERCANNOTHOLD”, in order to attempt to debate Me, of all people, on Islam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.!
It is freaking hilarious; he even quotes JUAN COLE of all people, as well as Google’s his opinion and Leftist talking points, before each post!
Too amusing….
As a result, “Soothsayer”/”THECENTERCANNOTHOLD” truly is talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time!
Beautiful…..
We just don’t tolerate bad behavior. Whereas Democrats appear to have a “win at all costs†mentality.
Apache, I’ve voted in every general election and all but one primary since 1966. Your observation of the difference between Republicans and Democrats hasn’t changed much in all that time. There have been a number of Republicans who certainly weren’t saints, but the vast majority of them either resigned in disgrace or were soundly rejected by the voters. Democrats? No so much.
Dale, thanks for the invite, but I have to go visit a friend who is in great need of a friend at the moment. Maybe later this weekend.
Retired Spook, glad to find another person who agrees with my anecdotal observations. Thank you for the feedback.
Got to run. I hope everyone has a stellar weekend.
AJ:
In my first post to one of your comments section after you graciously allowed readers to register so that we could contribute to your blog, I had expressed my views regarding the all the hissyfitting by our radical friends on the right. I mentioned National Review using Michael Moore tactics on the Wall Street Editorial Board. NR had called for a public debate with the WSJ just because the WSJ editors disagreed with the NR editors.
They along with their hissyfit friends (Michelle Malkin, Scott Johnson from Powerline, Hugh Hewitt) made such a public display of this. You even had a post about it where hissyfit commenters were gloating that WSJ wouldnt take up the challenge.
Now, I was out of town over the weekend and when I came back, I was expecting to see some gloating by the hissy fitters since WSJ didnt take up the challenge. Much to my surprise there was little to no mention of the debate challenge. I was perplexed.
Today I happened to look at the WSJ Opinion Journal website and came across this little tidbit.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110010167
Now, I don’t know how this lends itself to our discussions, but I think its funny. I was not the only one who thought the debate challenge by NR was a farce.
Now I am not saying all immigration opponents are out of touch elites, but it does likely confirm some of my negative opinions about NR. (not that it really matters).
Just a funny anecdote, I guess.