Jun 03 2007
More Immigration Hypochondriac Foolishness
As I have said many times, sometimes to win a debate you just have to let the other side demonstrate how wrong they are. Much of my current material comes from the hypochondriac postings on my site. They demonstrate over and over how out of control the Bush opponents are. Now they are buying into what are clearly planted propaganda stories. This was the basis of one comment which just has to be the craziest, most paranoid rant I have seen in a long time:
Debbie [Schlussel],
USCIS will not conduct an INTERAGENCY BORDER INSPECTION SYSTEM (IBIS) CHECKS on applicants as part of the TWP. This will increase the number of applicants processed each day (and decrease our safety).
***
CIS will NOT use IBIS/TECS Background Checks during the process of applicants at the Temporary ASC locations [DS: ASCs are Application Support Centers, where they will process Temporary Worker applicants]. CIS plans to open 100 Temporary ASC locations WITHOUT connectivity to IBIS/TECS. Will Congress be interested to hear the news that they are funding a part of the Guest Worker Program that DOES NOT CHECK BACKGROUNDS OF ALIENS????!!!!
Another Chicken Little squawks. First off, no legislation discusses connectivity of systems like this. We do not write laws that are computer system designs and requirements. Second, anyone wonder why this would work? It is not the computer background check that takes any time! It is entering the data of the applicant. Once that is done the computers take over and it is a matter of seconds. Third, background checks are held in the computer records, so there is now way to pretend to have checked the DB, the DB would not have the record of the check. I could list 100 reasons why this is pure myth. But no one in the hypochondriac camp will listen because this news is too good to be true! The Bushies are lying to us!
Oh, please. What a silly crock. This is classic DC propaganda and Schlussel and others fell for it because they have stopped thinking and are running on emotion: the one called panic. Someone is feeding the rabid masses more rabies. This is as ridiculous as the claims by the far left that Bush was behind 9-11 and exploded the twin towers using pre-staged charges. Why would anyone pretend to do background checks? The far right has gone over the edge of paranoid delusions. Now people understand why I coined the term immigration hypochondriacs. God save us from this mess.
Update: Ms Schlussel has commented below on how I “stole” her comments without siting her blog. As I wrote above, I was responding to a reader’s comment here, who by the way did not leave a link. I did note it was from Schlussel by adding in her name in the ‘to’ field of the email (making it pretty darn clear this was an email to her and not something she wrote). Ms. Schlussel has engaged in the same exaggeration and personal attacks which is now the staple of the Immigration Hypochondriacs. She called me a thief for responding to a reader of my blog who brought up her posting. I am awaiting her apology. And I have her on not-so-double-secret-probation for violoating the rules of my site (no wild insults against your host). I am not, however, holding my breath.
Clearly Ms Schlussel put as much thought into callng me a thief (as if I wanted her ideas to be mine???) as she did into the wild claims of some DHS official with an ax to grind or plans for personal power.
I grew up in DC and stuff like this comes out all the time. Just some of us our a lot more cautious about giving these thing credence at face value. The idea we would call for faux background checks is pure silliness. As I said their are 100 of obvious reasons why this is just silly. One more is the agency doing the checks will make sure it gets money to institute a really nice, expensive process and systems with access to other systems to do the job. The government is not known for under engineering its systems. It would be much more realistic to find more money than needed to hook up to DB’s than none at all in an attempt to fake the checks. It is this unrealistic thinking that makes the bill’s opponents lack credibility. And it is their personal attacks on us who find their arguments lacking that further erodes their arguments. The conservative movement is broken because the Immigration Hypochondriacs called for this civil war. They should stop complaining about the battle they wanted to have. They thought they had the cons all with them – and now they are learning a hard lesson. They wanted to teach a lesson to Bush, but the big question is are they capable of learning a lesson themselves? So far not so good.
Update: Reader Sue asked on one of these threads who I define “immigration hypochondriac” and I wrote back anyone who is against a guest worker program that encompasses the general parameters of the one in the bill. That includes punishments of a fine and paying back taxes, background checks, tamper-proof IDs, etc. I lile the provision for those with criminal pasts to get the boot. I like the new program where citizenship is not an option – including any children born here during their work time. So anyone who opposes this in any immigration bill, and is willing to leave us with the status quo to make sure a guest worker program is never enacted, as the Immigration Hypoccrite.
With that said, no bill is perfect and can use corrections. Those willing to support a program with some minor fixes (i.e., forget the poison pill game) then I would not include them in the definition of hypochondriac. No bill is perfect. Government doesn’t produce perfection – it produces consensus. Too many people forget this. Especially on the Conservative side when they get their back up. You would think they would remember government being a mixed bag since it is the essence of their policy positions. So it is hypocrtiical to demand perfection from that we all know cannot produce perfection.
The excuses not to act are endless, and the last refuge of those losing the debate. Acting, even imperfectly, is the true sign of leadership. We all know how is demonstrating leadership and doing what he can to make things better (not perfect), and we all know who have lost so much ground they are now proposing more of the very same they thing they used to say had to be addrressed.
relevant sections of bill S.2611 on work issues is
is Title III (Unlawful Employment of Aliens) sections 301 to 305
They propose increasing the workforce for enforcement of this by 2,200 over 4 years. (which imho is simply not enough to really be effective).
hmmm…I did use a close bold tag..but it’s still going. Here’s another…
retire05
The issue of Chain migration is one to look at. In fact as a part of this bill we are trying to have it in the future the point system come in. THat is where some Democrat opposition is coming into the bill and one reason why GOPers must engage the bill.
THe issue of Chain migration is complex. THe more I study it the more I see that it is not exactly as advertized by either side.
We see this as to Asian migration that are demographically ise and culturally wise most likely to use the benefits of Chain migrations. We find that the terrible scenarios that we hear about are not happening. We see application from Asian Countries not showing a significant increase and in fact deceasing in some parts. THis is a group where family immigration is important because of the ise of family in enterprises.
Once a sensible Guest worker program is implemented then we will see a sensibile return to circular work migration that we see. Added cost of crossing the border and Stepped up Border patrol enforcements efforts by the Bush administration has had the unintened consequence of these people staying put in the USA
Dc
I think that number does not include the amount of Border Patrol to be added. That being said the number could be increased prob either in the Senate or in the House. I am sure the Dems will go for it. Federal workers often trend Democrat so in the spirt if bipartsianship I am sure they would not mind the numner going up
AJ, what you don’t seem to understand about us “enforcement first” proponents is that we all wish that every poor person in the world could have the benefits we have. But that is just not possible. Every nation has only so much room and so many resources. We are not against anyone who comes here legally and contributes to our society and our economy. But what we see in this bill is the back end. And just like a mule, the front end is much nicer that the back end. And it is the back end that can really hurt you.
The problems of other nations are, in some part, not our problem. Mexico’s corrupt government and oppressive practices cannot be changed by us accepting one-third of the Mexican population. It can, and will be, changed only when the Mexican people decide they have had enough. Same with Afghanistan, Iraq, Columbia, Cuba or any nation where people do not know freedom.
This bill is yes, worse than the status quo. Read it with an open mind and think “worse case senario”. Because that is what you will have. This bill will bring out the worst part of it first, with little acheivement to show for it.
Are you, a home owner with a kid in college, willing to accept the additional costs that are going to be placed on your through your taxes, university tuitions, utility costs? That is the back end. The cost of political correctness.
Stop the name calling and vitriol. Even those who vehemently disagree with you (myself being one of them) have gone out of their way not to insult you. Offer those of us who differ with you the same courtesy. Learn a lesson from John McCain who told Senator Cornyn, who has sat in on the immigration bill meetings from the git-go and not been out on the campaign trail, to F-off. McCain lost any support he had gotten from anyone who knows Cornyn and it showed that McCain was only interested in trying to jack-boot this bill through.
You are coming off the same way.
Argue the bill on it’s face. Stop with the false claims of back taxes and the end to sanctuary cities. End the name calling. Present the bill in clause and section and argue it’s merits. Anything else is beneath you.
Lsu:
They become trapped here. Back when the old Bracero program was in place they went home. Canada has a program that allows them to migrate and still work and they have discovered few stay. That is ag workers though. They follow the seasons.
Bah…maybe you should come to NYC and have a look around.
Yes..of course…the reason more illegals are here is because they can’t get out…hahaha. That’s a new one.
But your point is well taken…in that any reform of law by gov..can have unintended, sometimes severe, consequences. Take Sarbane-Oxley act..intended to straighten out wallstreet and financial institutions post Enron accounting scandals. It has had the unintended (although readily apparent) consequence of tripling accounting costs and liablities to do business in the US. How did the big corporations respond? They re-structured..taking their money overseas. We have lost BILLIONS ..possibley trillions of dollars..not to mention it threatens to remove the US leadership role of world financial markets and place it in the EU.
OUCH. It’s so bad…they are currently trying to amend/reform part of it…to try and keep/attract more large finanicals to stay here.
As to your earlier Microsoft example…..sure….the reason they want the Indian from india rather than the Indian PHD from US is because they can get the one from India for half the salary. That’s why. It has more to do with “money” that it does…anything else.
My friend who is here legally in the US from India..has a Phd from M.I.T in applied math. How much more school does he need?
And yes..the number 2,200 is the number of new hires specifically for dealing with employment enforcement (there’s that word again) and does not include border patrol agents.
18k new border patrol agents..who’s job will be to patrol the border, ie..the fence.. (not enforce employment provisions of the bill)..which is why Iv’e suggested the bill is not properly balanced in addressing the root of the problem and needs some adjustment. They should have it the other way around…because they have a better chance of even FINDING these people and dealing with the issue where they work than they do catching them coming across the border trying to get in. As stated earlier, the crux of the issue is not how many you can catch coming across..but in removing the benefits/incentives they have to stay “illegally” and offer some incentive for them to use the “front door”.
I should not have said trapped, I mean it is easier to stay than it is to migrate from country to country. And people do what is easier.
Just an interesting tidbit here. I have had the feeling that when one gets beyond the blogs and talk radio and the hardcore that the American people are not as heated on this issue as last year.
I found this interesting look at the word immigration as to google and compare it to last year
http://www.google.com/trends?q=immigration
The word “amnesty” has taken even a bigger hit
http://www.google.com/trends?q=amnesty&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
here is “immigration reform”
http://www.google.com/trends?q=immigration+reform&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Yahoo picks up on this also
Bipartisan-brokered deals seem to come only once in a blue moon—and this month, we have both. More than three years after President Bush proposed his guest worker program and a year after the passage of HR4437, the Senate is now dickering over the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007.
While the 300-plus page package has something for everyone to dispute, the general sentiment is that an overhaul is in order. The word “immigration” registers in our top 1,000 searches this week, propelled by teens to 50-somethings. Searches are a third less than this same time last year, but not necessarily because of declining interest: Last year’s protests against HR4437 culminating in the May Day immigration rallies gathered up phenomenal buzz.
Searches for border patrol, green card and green card lottery have also been percolating. Surprisingly, the red-flag term “amnesty” hasn’t buzzed as much—but maybe it’s not so surprising, given polls find Americans may have moved on from that issue
http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/71100/citizen-change
I’VE GOT IT!!! I’ve been miffed by AJ’s absolute melt down over this immigration bill while at the same time accusing those who disagrees with him of having some sort of civil melt down. So I think I know why.
AJ is either getting a pay check from this administration, and/or, some senators, or La Raza, or;…Or it isn’t really AJ blogging at all, but instead it’s Linda Chavez, President Bush, and Mexico’s ex-President Vicente Fox taking turns guest blogging for him using his pseudonym, while in the meantime AJ’s shackled to the floor at Gitmo with Christina Agulera’s music blasting 24/7.
There can be no other explanation for the absolute amputation of his cognizances.
Terrye
This issue is also a example of astroturfing. Once one gets away from the blogs and talk radio ine realizes that American people are not in a uproar over this bill. One can see that as to the google and yahoo searches as to worlds like “immigration” immigration reform” and a word that so much marketing effort has been put into the word “amnesty” which has taken a even bigger hit.
Yahoo talks about it here
http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/71100/citizen-change
coffee260
The Council of Conservative Citizens were convinced I was being paid by the RNC when I blogged on this topic last year. Unfort I still have not recieved my check 🙂
coffee:
Meltdown??? Puhleaze, AJ is downright placid compared to some people on the right.
For instance there are some people out there who think anyone supporting comprehensive reform must be on LaRaza’s payroll. Pretty paranoid wouldn’t you say?
lsu:
I think most Americans just want it to go away. They are tired of it all. war immigration war immigration war immigration…….
To be truthful I think AJ has been pretty tolerant of a lot of the people who come on here and treat him and his views on this subject with virtually no respect. It is his blog, he can meltdown if he damn well feels like it.
If people want to say whatever they feel like without AJ bothering them they can always get their own blog instead of using his space.
Well, well, well, I guess this individual US Congressman John Shadegg would qualifiy as a “hypochondriac fool”, according to “some”.
As a US Congressman who is an expert on the subject, and actually WANTS a “guest worker” program, listen to his measured criticism of the bill, as is!
Very interesting…
Terrye, and a few others, maybe it’s time you apologize to people such as LE and Apache, Bikerken, R05, etc.????
AJ??????
BIGLSU, I have been reading your post and now I have to put you into the category of people who are peeing on my leg and telling me it’s raining. If you cannot acknowledge that the large majority of people in this country are screaming mad against THIS BILL, then you are in serious denial of the truth. You cannot twist statistics to say that the majority of people are for comprehensive immigration reform, which is true, to say that they are for this bill. This bill is NOT comprehensive immigration reform, it is TOTAL CAPITULATION to lawbreakers and the green light for all persons who can get into this country to be totally legalized.
To defend the position that this is not complete legalization when they can stay here, work, travel, vote, recieve mandatory wages above americans, and not be bothered by the law makes you look like a shill for the bill. Especially when you throw on top of that the TOTALLY MORONIC position that they are not being put to the “Front of the Line” of people who are trying to immigrate here legally. Who the hell do you think you are kidding? You’ve lost credibility as far as I’m concerned. The fact is that people who are supporting this bill are kumbaya globalists. They really don’t believe in borders and rules and all of that icky stuff. They think that if the US would just follow the EU example and reduce the importance of that icky border down to an imaginary line that doesn’t really mean anything, that we would all just get along better. These are the same people who don’t believe the police should chase people because someone could get hurt. Sounds real touchy feely nice, but it’s just plain wrong.
You said, “Once one gets away from the blogs and talk radio ine realizes that American people are not in a uproar over this bill.”
What a steaming pile of liberal logic! The fact is that talk radio and the blogs have become so popular with conservatives because they are the venues that the liberal left has not had a lock on for decades. I suspect you are a card carrying KOS Kid masquerading as a conservative to try to persuade other conservatives to your point of view. You are not the only one that I suspect of doing that on this blog. Your logic just doesn’t fit your rap.
I had forgotten about the “Employer 8 Ball” clause. It would make is discriminatory for an employer to validate a person’s legality prior to employing them. They could only do it after the illegal is employed. But then, the employer is subject to fines if found to have hired an illegal. Catch 22 in the purest form. And if the employer fired the illegal for providing false information, the illegal then has redress (a case for legal action).
Makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it?
Who wrote this bill, Kermit the Frog?
As to my reading of it…the employer cannot use someone’s status as a means to hire (or not hire) them. BUT, he must within 15 days of hiring run a verification check and declaration of status on them using some undetermined system that is yet to be full defined or exist (they suggest it could be over the internet). But I digress. From there, the gov responds as to the eligbility for employment of the person and what their particular status “is” under the new xyz work permit system.
If the person is refused and not hired..they can have recourse to contest it through the social security office (I’m laughing), or the Immigration Services office (I’m laughing even harder). So, the employers only responsibltiy is to request the check and record whatever the gov responds. And of course..they are not to hire anyone who’s status comes back as ineligble.
They then suggest there will be 2200 people to serve as investigators and compliance enforcers for this part of the bill/system nationwide. Assuming there are 11 million illegals currently (heck..just look in every deli, etc..in your neighborhood for starters), you can guess what the problem is going to be.