Dec 08 2006

Strange Report On Poisoned Cup

This seems a bit wierd and doesn’t explain much of the contamination.

68 responses so far

68 Responses to “Strange Report On Poisoned Cup”

  1. Enlightened says:

    Why use PO210?

    Well, let’s say the assassin was a professional hit man. Most hit men are given a contract which does not specify the method, just the result. I’m sure there are occassions when a specific method is requested by the Contractor.

    So let’s say this was a “assassin’s discretion” contract, meaning he/she could pick the method of murder. Let’s say this was indeed a Russian assassin, and let’s say he was or is a government operative/worker.

    1) Most hit men do not use knives in a public arena – plus my guess is a sophisticated assassin does not want to get “blood on their” hands – literally – due to possible exposure to blood borne diseases.

    2)Some hit men use a high-powered weapon from a distance – hard for an assassin to pinpoint Litvinenko to a specific spot – unless he is lured there by another. I do not think most assassin’s use a assistant. I think Litvinenko knew he was being followed and took precautions – ie: never stying somewhere overlong, flitting about from place to place.

    3) Some hit men use a hand gun at close range – some assassins are very bold, will walk right up to the victim in a crowded restaurant and do his business and walk away. In this instance I don’t think that would work as the area involved is too many people, the assassin would be at too much risk of citizens/police capturing him.

    4) Some assassins stalk the victim, and assassinate them when they are caught alone, cornered in their room, or a hallway, or a alleyway – Litvinenko was not prone to exposing himself to that because he was a former KGB/FSB – he knew better.

    5) Some assassins use poison. Which poison? Cyanide? Very easy to obtain on the black market, easy to transport, hard to disolve in a drink, hard to force the victim to take it, a very violent death.
    Rat poison? Arsenic? Dioxin? Dioxin didn’t work fast enough on Yushcenko.

    How about radioactive isotopes? Easy to obtain in Russia. Maybe the assassin has a friend that works at a reactor in Russia. Maybe the assassin worked at the reactor. Maybe the assassin is highly educated in nuclear physics/sciences. Fairly easy to transport if packaged correctly. Easy to drop in a drink. Tasteless. No smell. “Have a nice tea – sir.” And walk away. No overt action to raise suspicions of the public or victim.

  2. Weight of Glory says:

    If you think that he was a smart, sophisticated assassin, who knew that there was a very, very good chance that he would die of radiation, then it would in-fact make him a dumb assassin. For why go on a suicide mission when you could kill him without endangering yourself. And why would the “string-pullers” waste a good assassin?

    If you think that he was a dumb, bungling assassin, then why give him millions and millions of dollers worth of a poision to commit an assassination that, due to his stupidity, may or may not be successful. And why do this when all fingers are sure to point back to Russia?

  3. crosspatch says:

    What you would do is give a fatal dose, maybe 2x a fatal dose, maybe even 5x a fatal dose. It would take weeks for symptoms to appear. It would probably manifest as secondary infections resulting from a compromised immune system. You would not have the dramatic and highly obvious radiation poisoning symptoms that Litvinenko had. At the time symptoms first appeared, you would have already been through one biological half-life of the material and elimination rates would be decreasing. In other words, it would be extremely hard to find because your body would have already been eliminating the material for a month or more by the time you got sick. Your initial symptoms would be either some secondary infection or just general fatigue. Vague symptoms that would be hard to point to any particular source. You would probably be sick for a couple of months. All the while the amount of polonium in your waste stream is decreasing. In about 10 weeks, you have only 25% of the original polonium left in you. That drops to 12.5 % 5 weeks later and 6.25% in another 5 weeks. Chances of ever finding what killed you are near zero. It would look like some rare form of leukemia or something.

    It was the massive dose given to Litvinenko that was the difference here. Someone wanted the polonium to be found. Probably someone who suspected that they themselves were contamated and needed an excuse to go to the doctor.

    There is also the possibility that Litvinenko realized that he had contaminated these people and dosed himself in order that they might be saved. I doubt it, though.

  4. crosspatch says:

    I would be checking with google for web searches on “polonium” before November 1st.

  5. crosspatch says:

    “If you think that he was a smart, sophisticated assassin, who knew that there was a very, very good chance that he would die of radiation, then it would in-fact make him a dumb assassin.”

    Or a jihadi

  6. Enlightened says:

    The assassin is not contaminated – they knew how to handle the product, wore protection and escaped unharmed. There is no indication that the assassin is contaminated or exposed.

  7. Carol_Herman says:

    Dosed? Out of thin air?

    A gun you carry, usually in a holster. A knife? Ditto. You don’t keep it in your pocket where you could cut yourself.

    How did this crap get brought into England? And, other places?

    Was it dissolved beforehand? Disguised as something else?

    And, why “assassins?” When all you know for sure is that these people were black marketeers.

    Heck. Maybe the Fed Ex guy did it? He carries boxes all day. Who’d notice?

    It’s like trying to put together a puzzle but you have no idea what the finished puzzle even looks like!

    While “mistakes” got tossed away? Nobody, on purpose, went into Chernobyl to create a melt down. But ya know what? Russia gets freak accidents all of the time. Subs underwater that sink. Fires on subs that are in dry dock, because a painter ignites “rags.” THROUGH STUPIDITY.

    I say this because russia does not have OSHA.

  8. crosspatch says:

    “The assassin is not contaminated – they knew how to handle the product, wore protection and escaped unharmed. There is no indication that the assassin is contaminated or exposed.”

    Then why ann the contamination surrounding Lugovoi going all the way back to October 16? And the other guys in his little group. They didn’t get 100x a fatal dose but they are leaving more of a polonium trail than anyone on the planet.

  9. crosspatch says:

    See this is exaclty the opposite of most cases. In most cases, assassination is obvious if they wanted to “send a message”. In this case it isn’t clear that it was assassination. The only message that is loud and clear in all of this is POLONIUM.

  10. crosspatch says:

    In other words, if there wasn’t all that additional contamination, the assassination message would be much clearer. If they “wanted to send a message”, simply shooting him in the head would send it clear enough. Or poisoning him and all his friends with ricin in their drinks would do the same thing if you have someone working at the bar. No need to use polonium and the “message” would be just as clear.

    This was a smuggling op gone bad. Who was buying the polonium, why, where was it coming from, is there more.

  11. Weight of Glory says:


    “The assassin is not contaminated – they knew how to handle the product, wore protection and escaped unharmed.”

    Wore protection? How could he do that and not be conspicuous? Wouldn’t the victim get suspicious if some one gave him a drink wearing gloves or a contamination suit? No, if I am to believe that there was an assassin, then that assassin could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be a good one.

  12. Enlightened says:

    Maybe the hotel room “spill” was vomit? Containing PO210 and tea? Maybe that is why “eateries” are a focus?

    Hotel workers cleaned the “spill” and got exposed?

    Can PO210 be spread by the exposed by violent coughing that sprays bloodladen spittle on another?

  13. Enlightened says:

    PO210 can be handled without exposure if the handler knows what they are doing. It can be virtually undetectable. The only protection the handler would need is caution and maybe gloves, and not even that.

    The assassin knew what he was doing and easily transported it from Russia to the UK.

    “But because polonium emits alpha particles — large particles that cannot penetrate beyond the outer layers of the skin — it is relatively safe to transport. And because the alpha rays emitted by polonium are non-penetrating, they do not set off radiation monitors — making it possible the element easily was smuggled into Britain.”

  14. crosspatch says:

    See, here we are arguing how it could possibly be assassination. If it were an assassination to “send a message” there would be absolutely no mistaking. There would be no room for argument. He would have two holes in his head (because a person never puts two in their own head).

  15. crosspatch says:

    “The assassin knew what he was doing and easily transported it from Russia to the UK.”

    Except he didn’t know what he was doing and apparently contaminated half of London.

  16. lostinthedrift says:

    An assassin could also give someone a container, say that it contained something that it did not contain, f.i. some Colombian marching powder. He could have it in a securely sealed container inside of which a non-secure “normal looking” container would be handed over to the buyer. This would mean a rather small risk for the assassin. I don’t know how likely it is that a double spy would be putting strange stuff up his nose like that, when he’s afraid of his own shadow, but you can replace the coke for a faulty Po-210 container, and it would also be a successful assassination.

  17. Lizarde1 says:

    I don’t believe anybody knew they were contaminated on Nov. 1 before the violent illness of Litvinenko -their families were there they were going to soccer matches etc…not a care in the world. I believe the whole thing was one giant work accident that somehow hit Litvinenko the worst (he was storing it after its arrival in England?) and the fallout at 3 pm. was on Scaramello from the sleeve, tablecloth, or whatever. Scaramello has not been said by anybody but himself to have 5 x the lethal dose. Doctors have not confirmed that have to pick the simple explanation – the stuff leaked like a sieve starting at least by Oct. 16 – all 3 players were on the PO trail and all were contaminated and one the most. How could one get more contaminated than the others – simple – he was the carrier and had it most often in his possession..

  18. crosspatch says:

    Anyone know where Scaramella is?

  19. Lizarde1 says:

    I wish I knew where he was – you said yesterday he had gone to a private clinic

  20. Lizarde1 says:

    latest on Hamburg note the phrase an object or a person:
    “There are indications that there has been a source of radiation there, but no source of radiation has been found,” said Ulrike Sweden, a spokeswoman for Hamburg police.
    German police said they began checking the apartment late Friday after media reports that Kovtun had flown to London from Hamburg. Sweden said it was unclear if Kovtun had returned to the German city after meeting Litvinenko.

    She said it was possible that either a person or an object could have been the source of radiation in the apartment in Hamburg’s Altona district.