Nov 12 2005

Plame Strange – McGovern

Published by at 3:57 pm under All General Discussions

I had to listen to Ray McGovern and Wilson at the EPIC convention in June 2003 to get some idea of what the media and democrats would be setting themselves up for. It appears Ray McGovern is another Cindy Sheehan.

McGovern starts out talking about how our Flag needs to be ‘washed’ to remove ‘stains’ on that flag! He calls for 5 minutes to think about (fantasize) what the flag should stand for, and how it needs to be cleansed. I guess diversity of opinion is not something McGovern can accept in America.

He harps on how we should not send our people into harms way only by telling the truth! Of course we can tell there is only one true truth!

He recounts how he got into the CIA (so he could tell the truth, of course!). Ray responded to John Kennedy’s call to serve (another nostalgic dreamer). He now claims the CIA was able to tell it like it was (but somehow missed all the errors and mistakes). He fondly remembers being unhindered by policies (and reality it appears).

Interestingly, he recounts the rationale for the CIA was to work FOR the President and give him their opinions as they know it. Somewhere these people think there is not reality outside their collective opinions! Truth resides only in their unique and preferred heads! Is this a silly game of egos?

This guy actually is claiming the only place in Washington without a policy agenda is the CIA! What a hoot. I don’t know whether the poor sap believes this or is scamming, but it is absolutely hilarious. His head doesn’t look that big in his picture.

He leaks that he is still in contact with people on the inside at this time and hearing that their views are not carrying the weight they used to. In a further idiotic comment he claims independence from pressure (to perform, to substantiate, to be challenged, to compete) can only come from financial independence. Actually, that is only for people who cannot hold their side of the argument up to scrutiny.

I have seen this pathetic bureaucrat type too many times in my career. Years = wisdom, despite all other factors (like bias, laziness, failure to keep current). Sounds like the whining of someone who did not make the grade and was passed up.

They hated Tenet. Bet ya some of this was a lame attempt to topple Tenet.

The folks he admires resisted any link between AQ and Iraq. Well, why is that admirable if the goal is the truth? These fools seem to use the word ‘truth’ to cover for their need to ‘be right’.

He talks about ‘the forgery’, and the most obvious crime. A demonstrable crime. Ray claims it was ‘used constructively’. LOL! Yes it was Ray. The CIA used it very constructively. But if you are so tapped in why did you miss all the other intel and issues? And he is nauseatingly pompous in his speech. This is going to be a long 26 minutes

Ray now goes back to Aug-Sept of 2002. He claims Bush was grasping for evidence to convince Congress. Ray reads minds, so he was able to determine they looked at Bio-Chem weapons and the administration said they could use that! Ray is pretty silly. He calls the folks over at DIA ‘clowns’, exposing his insecurity and that of the CIA to competition. The DIA will not cooperate with ‘hard evidence’ – which is true for all intel out of Iraq (something Ray also fails to explain).

The guy is in full fantasy mode. Now he goes into aluminum tubes for processing. His ‘logic’ for dismissal shows is laughable. Something about aluminum tubes ‘bending’ and therefore not useful for centrifuge processing of weapons grade uranium.

Now the kicker! Ray fantasizes about the administration grasping for some other evidence and in his mind he sees them going after the intel about Iraq trying to uranium from Niger….

Folks. This occurred on June 14th, 2003. At that time Kristoff had done his May 6th article and June 13th. Pincus did his on June 12th. So the detailed forgery information is still classified and hidden inside the CIA. The articles listed here erroneously connect Wilson’s Niger trip with debunking the forgeries. So timelines become really important here.

Ray claims Tenet folks had detected the forgeries (being the CIA). However, this is not true. McGovern is making a clear mistake here. In Aug-Sept 2002 the forgeries were not in the US! And when they hit the US they sit in a CDP safe until being pulled out in 2003. So is this wrong or admission that some inside the CIA knew ahead of time these were fakes?

Ray further fantasizes that Bush’s team realized these were fakes but asked ‘who knows’ about the forgeries. Ray, in full projection fantasy mode, says no one really knows and it will take a few days for Congress to find out they were forgeries! This guy is either wired into the CIA or not. If he is he is exposing serious errors in their cover story through these little fantasies. If he isn’t he is simply showing how out of touch he is.

More fantasizing: IAEA is breathing down their throat for the report. They can hold this for 3-4 months while the President gets the Congressional votes. Mysteriously, the McGovern fantasy timeline matches how long Plame’s unit in the CIA, CPD, mis-placed the forgeries from the CIA and administration!

He states clearly VIPS members, with much better understanding of ‘operational matters’ agree with this theory! He sites specifically David McMichael (more googling in my future).

Ray says that when something really heinous like this happens (not having the case for war), and then he diverts to Congressman MacDermott in Baghdad. Rays uses that as an example of how a Congressman claimed Bush would mislead the American people. Yep, McGovern used Baghdad Jim as an example! The guy who trusted Hussein’s word over Bush’s. Goes on grasping at Tonken and Vietnam. Ray believes MacDermott was correct! More Vietnam memories of cooked intel being discovered. It is clear Ray wants to be this kind of hero! The guy is jaded to the core. He believes in no institution outside the CIA. It is clear he thinks mankind’s future can only be saved by the CIA – not America or its government, just the CIA. The ego is amazing.

McGovern goes onto talk about the FSO’s who quite the CIA he claims because of the lies (now proven not to be lies). These FSO likely quit because they were marginalized and had emotional issues with not being the renowned experts on their subjects anymore – typical when dinosaurs fall in the government).

Ray refers specifically to Greg Thielmann Fieldman (sp) who was on Bill Moyers the night before (more googling). He was at State and supposedly still claims there was pressure. Ray says Greg retired in September of 2002 and knew the forgery was being used in Congress.

OK this is also interesting since State did have a copy of the documents and the ability to raise the flag – but didn’t! Why? Greg waited until after the war to speak out! Why? Was his resignation a way to avoid passing the word about the forgeries around too soon? We all know now the forgeries were not central to taking out Saddam. But somehow the timeline in 2003 fits the fantasy at the time and not the facts at the time! The fantasy of the time was the coordinated misinformation campaign in the media by VIPS and the CIA. So consistency during this time period could indicate a conspiracy.

The wrap up is childish at best. Go to the 24 minute mark and listen to the dribble.

OK, what do we get out of all this? McGovern tipped the plan and hand of the Wilson gambit. His timeline mistakes are very important. It was meant to be the Bush timeline So for those looking into this check out McGovern. His story parallels Wilson’s early fables and this EPIC event was clearly part of an organized effort to get the press on Bush’s back for the 2004 election. The mistake the CIA made was in referring this to DoJ for investigation. That blew the 2004 timeline. Now we can go back and find out who really was hyping the facts! Ray needs to be under oath.

3 responses so far

3 Responses to “Plame Strange – McGovern”

  1. mary mapes says:

    Say says Greg retired in September of 2002 and knew the forgery was being used in Congress.

    AJ am I missing something? I thought we didn’t get the “copies” until OCTOBER 2002

  2. AJStrata says:


    No, you did not miss a thing!

  3. mary mapes says:

    oh you dog AJ…you are too good.