Feb 07 2008
Suicide Voters, “Independent” Conservatives And Other Foolishness
Boy, has the political world been turned on its head as Americans run from the fringes and towards ‘the center’. Today is one of those days I am a proud (and an original – since 1982) Independent Conservative. The madness overtaking the Mary Poppins Conservatives as they run around with their Holier Than Thou schtick is simply stunning. In a nutshell it goes like this – no matter how consistently conservative you have been over the last quarter century, if you disagree with the “true” conservatives – even partially – you are a lesser human being and not a good American.
That was the message from the newly self-minted “Independent Conservatives” Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity today. Brother, classic rock never sounded so good! My differences with these self annointed Apostles of Reagan (who was the one who converted yours truly BTW) are minor. I am very much pro-life and a strong and scientifically based opponent of Embryonic Stem Cell Research. I am a strong defender of the war in Iraq and The Surge (see here as well). I believe I have been a voice of sanity and insight on the entire FISA-NSA issue as I exposed the media lies around our national security. I was part of the effort to dispel the lies promulgated by the Plamiacs. I am a proponent of true science being included in the Global Warming discussions.
But all that is for naught because I do not agree we should distract our limited security resources and round up 12 million long term illegal aliens, instead preferring they be background checked, fined, pay back taxes and get to the very back of the citizenship line. For that one reasonable and defendable difference on immigration (which is the only issue between conservatives and the Amnesty Hypochondriacs) I, Bush, McCain, Kyle, Warner and others are demeaned and denigrated. For realizing Dubai Ports was not a security risk and knowing it was a security enhancement against nuclear bombs being smuggled into this country through foreign ports I became a lesser conservative (if you didn’t know the UAE was willing to purchase on their own dime state-of-the-art cargo scanners for all their overseas ports and pre-check cargo heading to America).
The fact of the matter is there are more conservatives who can disagree on some items than those too pure for the rest of us lowly beings to fathom. And that is the lesson that will be taught this election cycle. Hannity and Ingraham are divorcing themselves from the GOP for daring to disagree with them – they are now “Independent Conservatives”. How pathetic. They don’t get their way so they bolt, insults and demeaning comments flying against those who dare differ.
And let’s not forget the two versions of suicide voters out there. We have the Coulter-Beck club who are not RINOs, but will vote for Hillary before the GOP nominee (and yes folks, McCain is the GOP nominee as selected by the voters just as Bush is the GOP President, also selected by the voters). How is it they are more “pure”, “true” conservatives than those who disagree with McCain but still want to defeat liberalism? And there is also their close cousins the suicide non-voters, whose actions will also result in Liberals having an edge in this year’s elections? These suicide voters are holier conservatives than me?
The interesting part is if these folks keep bolting the party I may actually sign up to the GOP. Anyone willing to put Clinton in over McCain is backstabbing our military in my opinion (and yes, that is also a valid and rational view so get over it). McCain is a military hero. That means one of our military’s own is now a top contender for the WH. To diss him in favor of the surrendercrats is a double smack at those who risked and lost their lives in defense of this country.
Hannity tried to prop himself up again today by saying he is fighting for what he believes. Well so is everyone Sean – what makes you a better person or American than all the rest of us? The conservative talk shows have been nothing more than ego-stroking debacles since FL. It is 3 hours of why they cannot be wrong and why every other conservative who disagrees with them is fatally flawed as a conservative. As I said – the whole thing smells funky now.
If Laura and Sean want respect for fighting for their views then they should begin by showing it for the rest of us flawed conservatives who do THE SAME THING. Reagan brought me into conservatism because he was engaging and respectful. Today’s ‘true’ conservatives, as exemplified by the ranting of Savage, Levin and others, have undone all of Reagan’s good work and open arms. They have no tolerance for conservative views that are only marginally different from theirs. And you know what, I guess we should return the favor. I was thinking about going to CPAC this year – I don’t feel welcome so I am probably going to skip it.
Come November my guess is the ever shrinking and irrelevant ‘true’ conservatives will have become totally obsessed with their own greatness to the point the GOP will arise bigger and stronger to take on Hillary and Obama. It will be a center-right party devoid of suicide voters and those newly minted “independent” conservatives. Because this country is still a center-right country I think the GOP will see a resurgence, as it did when Buchanan bolted in his pique of frustration. America is still very religious, pro-life, strong on security, etc. One only need to look at the Lieberman-Lamont results to figure that one out. CT led the country in tacking from the fringes to the center, and I don’t see that trend ending since the largest voting block is always the independents (the real ones, not the ones who are too afraid to publicly declare they are no longer solid Republicans). And they decide elections, this year more than ever.
When the Democrats got tired of losing, they went out and ran a bunch of blue dog Democrats. Moderate to conservative Democrats like Brad Ellsworth and they won the House back.
Meanwhile when the talking heads of the right lose, they attack the people who failed to kiss their butts and say they will waltz away.
What a bunch of weenies.
The truth is they are becoming irrelevant and they know it. Now their only hope is to play spoiler and hope they can blackmail the GOP into doing what they want. What they overlook is that for every listener out there who would jump out a building if these guys ask, there are two who just might join the party if the Lauras were not in it anymore.
Dear AJ Strata;
Please come home and join us in the GOP. I’m afraid the only “independent conservatives” out there are the ones left at the kid’s table. You are an adult. We need you with us. You would make a great Republican!
SJR
The Pink Flamingo
AJ,
“Suicide conservatives” is an apt term, and not insulting. And if McCain wins without them, they will have lost their place at the table.
Disappointed conservatives would be smart to work with other conservatives to shape the Party and to avert a real disaster in the general election.
Giving- in to the Dems is a knife in the back of the troops and their families. It is also allowing the Court to be stacked with “Ginsburgs.”
And it is a surrender in the GWOT.
AJ
I agree with your above stated stand on immigration but feel the border must be secured. I also feel however that McCains stand on this is much more liberal than yours.
I hope he picks a running mate conservatives can support it would go a long way toward healing the party. Mitt maybe? or Rudy? ( not as good)
I fear he will stick it to us once again and pick someone like Lieberman or Lindsay Graham.
I for one am sick and tired of the finger pointing and bitching, this site included, its time now to unite against the dems or find a third party more in tune with our principals McCains choice for V.P. might have alot to do with which path I choose.
“… if you didn’t know the UAE was willing to purchase on their own dime state-of-the-art cargo scanners for all their overseas ports and pre-check cargo heading to America.”
Dubai Ports also had a pre-arrangement with Bush that our intelligence people would be embedded in Dubai Ports to ensure that no jihadi shenannigans went on.
So we would have been assured state-of-the-art cargo scanners AND humint resources, two for the price of one, if only the deal had gone through.
As Charlie Brown would say, “Drat!”
Dubai World Ports is the largest port operator in the world. Security is enhanced when one organization handles things start to finish. Attempting to hand off data in the middle of shipments provides a place for problems to occur.
Excellent speeches today. I will be voting for McCain as a former Romney supporter. Actually, not so much for him, but against Hillary. I may not ever admire McCain — certainly never like I admired Romney –but I am looking for the good now. He is a courageous man, loves our country, will remain dedicated to success in Iraq, and will keep our government small. A scoop of conservatism is better than none at all.
McCain now should show that he is sincere, and make some concessions to the GOP, and the GOP should honor him with their vote. He seemed to be indicting that in his speech. I urge him not to ruin by putting a lite-liberal in as his V.P. but a conservative.
I offer my congratulations to all McCain supporters, and McCain himself! It’s time to prepare for the bigger challenges — we must be united and energetic about it. After today, our party I know will begin to reunite. It’s time to rally to McCain!
Well, AJStrata, if you do decide to join us, then I say, “Welcome!”
AJ,
I know you want me to “give it a rest” but you’ve stated very clearly that you are all for honest debate so which is it?
What I find so interesting is that you and I agree on almost every issue other than immigration and your obsession(imo) with so-called “purity wars.” You appear to be, by your posts, quite conservative and I have always enjoyed coming here for your insight and information. Most people disagree on something so I don’t find that unusual.
What I find very unusual is your statements about the Republican Party needing to reach out and be more inclusive of moderates and independents while at the same time you are ranting about these “hyper-conservatives” and “true conservatives” and “purity wars.” Is it not their right to have an opinion just as you have one? Is it simply that you feel they are in a position to influence too many people and that’s what bothers you? So they are holier than thou and you aren’t?
And now if one of “them” chooses to leave the party and become a Conservative Independent they are somehow wrong? Then aren’t you wrong? You had your reasons for leaving your party…why can’t they leave theirs?
I thought you were pretty harsh with Klimt earlier also. He did come close to the line but I don’t think that was his intent. His comments seem to be well thought out and sincere. But one thing you should be remembering…Most people (and I don’t mean Klimt) read the headlines and then move on. In your over-zealousness (imo) your site appears to be a shrine to McCain. I have read all of your posts and know that that is not the case. I know that your objective is to emphasize what you honestly believe to be “purity wars.” But others will just see the headlines and skip on by and miss the real strengths of this blog.
I stated when I first started commenting here that I was tired of the rhetoric of Malkin, Rush and the rest. It wasn’t necessarily WHAT their positions were but the manner in which those positions were stated. I may have checked in from time to time with Malkin (reading the headlines mostly) but I knew what the posts would be like. The message was lost in all the garbage.
I would hate to see many of your messages lost in any gargage. But I have found myself thinking why not go back to Malkin or Rush or whoever because I’m seeing there really is no difference. I know you’ll say that your words are different than theirs, but in my opinion they are not. And when you tell the so-called “suicide voters” that they are basically leaving their troops in harms way how is that any different than calling them traitors? I happen to agree with you that if we don’t hold our noses and vote for McCain that we are putting our soldiers at risk to surrender loving liberals. My OPINION is simply that your failure to see the similarities in how you are handling this is making you sound like all of them. I don’t agree with you but that isn’t what I have a problem with. My problem is, like with them, how you say it.
I know that this is your site and you can run it any way you choose, which you should. I just think that there is lots of value here that many should see and I’d hate to have them miss it because of a few differences.
I know, long and windy…but hey, if I didn’t care I wouldn’t take the time!
Just a reminder. The Immigration bill was shot down by both Democrats and Republicans. It was a bipartisan rejection of a bad bill.
**********
Rookie Democrats dig in against immigration bill
By Carl Hulse
The New York Times
Article Last Updated: 06/28/2007 12:19:50 AM MDT
Washington – In narrowly winning her seat last year, Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri ran hard against what she saw as a flawed approach in Congress to dealing with illegal immigration.
McCaskill, a Democratic newcomer, said she is not about to change her view now.
“I hope this never wears off, but I like to keep my word,” said McCaskill, part of a triad of moderate Democratic freshmen balking at the proposed immigration overhaul and complicating efforts by President Bush and Senate leaders to pass it this week.
http://www.denverpost.com/immigration/ci_6246083
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Americans have every right to voice their objection when their government is doing something they don’t like. I thought it was a bad bill and my Senator’s and Congressmen heard it loud from me. I am a conservative. I consider myself a “sensible conservative”. I honestly don’t know how you break it down because conservatives cover a wide spectrum. I believe in priciples. Does that make me a far right consercvative? I believe in compromise within limits. Does that make me a RINO? There could be some candidates I don’t want to vote for. Does that make me a purist? I’m comfortable being called a conservative. It’s better than being called a “far-right, Rino, Purist”. But, call me that if you wish.
Here’s the thing…..
I was against the Immigration reform bill as it was written. So were a high per centage of Democrats. I’m pretty sure those Democrats weren’t listening to Rush-Ingraham-Coulter-etc.
Think about it.
Another reminder to my above post…..
It wasn’t conservatives who stopped the Immigration reform. It was conservatives and 47% of the Democrats :
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excerpt:
A Democracy Corps poll by Stan Greenberg and James Carville, former advisors to Democratic President Bill Clinton, showed intense voter concern about immigration in battleground congressional districts. Voters were far more likely to support proposals that would tighten the border and stop illegal immigrants from getting government benefits than efforts to legalize the estimated 12 million people living in the country illegally, the poll found.
The bipartisan Senate bill attempts to combine both ideas, along with many other controversial provisions such as a guest-worker program and a new merit-based point system for legal immigrants.
“We do not find very much voter support for the comprehensive Senate bill,” the pollsters wrote. Even Democratic voters split — with 47 percent for and 47 percent against — after hearing a description of the Senate bill
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/06/20/MNGSLQI0VR1.DTL
This has been a bruising primary season, not necessarily a bad thing, and is only now winding down on the GOP side. Over the next few months I would expect most of the conservative talkers and pundits to start backing McCain, maybe not with the vigor of a pro-supporter. I sure hope so, because when one seriously considers the lasting damage that could be done by a president Hillary or Obama, it borders on unpatriotic.
I don’t like McCain, never have, but one listen to the beginning of a Hillary speech is enough to send shivers down the spine and an axe to the forehead. It’s a 2-way street — McCain can’t win without base conservatives, and the conservative movement could be dealt severe blows in the judiciary and economy and and pro-life movements, not to mention national security and others with a McCain loss. Just as McCain made an effort to reach out to conservatives today, so I hope conservatives give him a chance. Respect should be given on both sides.
That being said, you must know that Laura, Rush, Hannity, Levin and some of the others are conservatives first and foremost. They will always be conservatives. With the ascendancy of Reagan, conservatism became the base of the GOP, and it worked and won. Unfortunately, in the last decade and especially post 9-11, the GOP veered away from conservative principles or simply quit trying on some issues. Profligate spending, the scandals & corruption perhaps being foremost, and not doing anything (or anything serious) to stop illegal immigration, the expansion of entitlements and big govt, all these were slaps in the face of conservatism and contributed to GOP losses in 2006 (Bush & his low approval was a drag as well). And now that one of the GOP leaders who not just voted with liberals on some big issues, he actually led with them and seemed to relish going against his own party and in some cases against Bush, is now their presumptive nominee to be president. That’s hard to take. Where some here paint a broad brush of all these true conservatives as going beyond the pale, I see passion and frustration and maybe some anger, but I the ones I listen to haven’t crossed the line in my view. Well, … Beck & Coulter, but Ann is as much about staying in the limelight and selling books, and I think eventually both of them will see the error of their ways.
One last thing, AJ tries to make case that McCain won because moderates and indies were tired of the hyper-partisans, and somehow this drove them to McCain. This is absurd. So if the conservative punditry were silent, Mitt would be winning? Maybe Fred? or Rudy? Complete nonsense. I’ve painted the picture for how we got here in several of the other threads. And one evry liberal Senator (Lieberman), save for Iraq, beating an incompetent far-left whacky hack (Lamont), shows that we’re a center-right country? Too funny. Perhaps our country is center-right, but this contest certainly does not prove that.
Wiley,
Very well said indeed!
From a disgruntled conservative who voted for Bush in 04:
Elections generally come down to the candidate that is more likable. Obama wins.
Hillary and McCain are both dogged by their long political careers of acting exactly like politicians do. Saying one thing, doing another. Stabbing one core constituency through the heart.
I don’t like John McCain. I don’t trust John McCain. Obama will really have to frighten me to get me to pull the lever for the brain-dead Republican party.
As awful as our Congress is at present, I really cannot believe we’re going to elect a senator as our next president, but that’s a 100% lead pipe cinch at this point. Ugh.
Jindal in ’12.
McCain could go a long way by resigning his senate seat and make it known he is serious about his winning the presidency.
To those who asked me to join the GOP: I am humbly honored – and this may be the year I do it.
Thanks for actually welcoming me in – honestly, that is all it takes. Our readers are top notch – no doubt.
Cheers, AJStrata
Wiley, I agree.
Resign his seat? Come on! No one is asking Hillary to resign her seat. No one is asking Obama to resign his seat. No one asked Kerry to resign his seat. Why insist on ridiculous tests that McCain has to meet that are asked of no other candidate in the world?
And here’s one thing the talk-radio conservatives need to remember, when they say we can survive 4 years of a dem pres and dem congress; with that combo one of the first things they do is reinstate the “fairness act” for broadcast communications. That means all radio stations would be forced to give “equal time” to the political left and right, and since no one listens to left wing radio those hours are pure money losers, which means no stations can afford a political talk radio format anymore. In a nutshell, if either Hillary or Obama is elected talk radio is dead within a year, by law, and all those people crying about McCain are out of a job.
and once it’s gone, it ain’t coming back.
I am not sure if the talk show hosts are conservatives first or if they just make a lot of money shooting off their mouths and talk radio is the place they do it.
They have had years to come up with someone they found “suitable”. They had months to get behind a candidate and really push him. They bitched, they moaned, they himhawed, they stabbed Bush in the back, they bitched some more.
What they did not do is come up with a Golden Boy to go up against the Democrats in 08. They just did everything they could to make it hard for anyone else to. And then when those dastardly liberal anti conservative REPUBLICANS spoke and actually chose the apostate McCain…well they did what they do best, threaten to leave.
Everyone wants McCain to reach out. Say he does and the cry babies out there just refuse to believe a word he says. After all, they choose to ignore his conservative ratings and his war record and his years of service now, why should they come around if he says nice to them?
Maybe it is time conservatives came to the realization that they are not the only people in the country. They do not run everything after all. They need to be a part of a coalition and if they can not do that then they can start their third party.
Frogg:
The hardline stance has not won one single election for anyone. The right might want to spread the blame around now, but when that bill went down and the back slapping was going on, it was the right taking all the credit for humiliating Jorge.
The pathetic thing is George Bush has put more money, more resources,more people and more effort into securing the border than any president in history. And all he has gotten for his trouble is a knife in the back.
And a lot of bitching about the money spent of course. As if these guys thought securing thousands of miles of border was cost free.