Jan 21 2008
Why Be Stuck With ObaCain Or McHillary?
I am an admirer of John McCain, but even this independent conservative sees little point in selecting between ObaCain or McHillary this November. I might as well vote Obama over McCain for all the good it will do for the Iraq war. Bush has conservative support to hold vetoes against SurrenderManiacs trying to lose Iraq to Bin Laden. McCain has no such support. I see little difference in the results of McCain verses Hillary or Obama with a Democrat Congress in the mix.
As Ed Morrissey notes FL is where the action is at now. And there few opportunities to change shades of leftism into a real choice between conservatives and liberals. The GOP field is distilling down to shades of center right, not strong conservatives (again as noted by the esteemed Captain Ed). I have been for Romney or Giuliani from day one. Both are executives, both are Bush conservatives (will support the causes of conservatives). I know Rudy is tough on terrorism (not sure about Romney). McCain is good on terrorism and immigrants (as I think Rudy will be, just like Bush). But he is the most liberal of the three.
Here is how I see it for conservatives. McCain has spent is life fighting conservatism and trying to move the party and country left. He opposed tax cuts, he wants to close Gitmo and put terrorists under constitutional protections, he worked with Fiengold to limit political speech. He is moving generally left.
Romney is a weathervane. He plows a compromise path, not a principled compromise path. He seems to be all things to all people. Sadly he reminds me of Clinton, triangulating for the sake of checking off milestone charts.
Rudy is the one candidate left who pushes the pile towards conservatism. He pushed NY City toward conservative principles on crime and taxes and turned that city around. No small feat in the heart of east coast liberal thought. He has pledged to follow the judicial nominating pattern of George Bush – which has been a stunning success for conservatives. He seems to be the closest thing to the next George Bush who will stand up to leftists and moderates when it counts (e.g., stem cell research), yet garner centrists support when it counts (taxes, Iraq, national security). We need someone who can pull both the Santorums and the Snowes into a coalition – and that ain’t McCain. McCain will dump the Santorums for a Reid, as I fear Romney will.
A fair and objective look at where these men have fought their battles is all you need to know for Florida and beyond. McCain is pushing hard left. Romney is wandering around the center looking for an easy path and Rudy has pushed liberal NY City into accepting conservative principles. Left, middle, or right – those are the choices we have had from day one. The point is most of the GOP base is heading middle or left. We need to steer it back to center right at a minimum.
If you were/are a Huckabee or Thompson supporter, and want to see them play a role in the next GOP administration, my suggestion is you vote for Rudy in FL. At a minimum it keeps the race open longer for Fred and Mike to see if they can do something. But if Fred and Mike have had their 15 minutes of fame their supporters can and should hold the GOP from going too far left and throw their support behind a man who has shown he can convert liberals to conservative ways. we have democrats in the race, we don’t need pale versions of them on the GOP side. We need someone heading right, and that person has to be able to draw support from centrists and those farther out from center.
Couldn’t agree more.
I think most observers, whether on the right of left, so long as they’re not afflicted with McCain Derangement Syndrome, would consider the idea that McCain is equivalent on the war with Hillary or Obama absurd. A victory over the Democrats by McCain would be widely seen, and in my view correctly, as a rebuke of Surrender-at-Any-Price in favor of Victory-at-Any-Price. Even if the differences were only symbolic rather than actual in terms of policy, something I don’t accept, they would still be significant, and would potentially have real and profound effects extending all the way to the battlefield, on both sides.
That said, I agree with your conclusion, and would have preferred Giuliani over McCain. Unfortunately, many of the same conservatives who now appear firmly in the grip of MDS were also ready to excommunicate Rudy from the conservative movement when he was taken to be the front-runner, and I suspect that would shift their invective smoothly from one “RINO” to the other if called upon to do so, to be joined by a large number of Social Conservatives who persist in the belief that Rudy is “pro-abortion,” “pro-gay marriage,” and intent upon grabbing their guns.
In short, a large segment of the Reagan Coalition has been loudly insisting on a veto over the nominee, even if they haven’t been able to unite around a champion who might have been more broadly acceptable to the party. McCain inspires passionately hateful intolerance from large or at least vocal segments of the party, but that segment is somewhat smaller than the one that opposes Giuliani, if less noisily at the moment.
I fear that the Republican right has revealed itself to be just as crazy as the Democratic left, with the disadvantage of lacking a unifying determination to win.
have to disagree…
probably for the first time.
Romney is top notch, and his record shows he is NOT a weathervane.
his record in MASS is admirable, as he is a true fiscal conservative, pushing tax reduction, and restraining spending.
tough on crime, tried to defend traditional marriage, empowered local law enforcement to arrest illegal immigrants, etc…
his change on abortion was merely one of advocation, being not morally supporting it, but not willing to change law in MASS.
he changed to suggest this was wrong and has declared a commitment to work for pro-life efforts.
when comparing Romney’s campaign expression in the past, with what he delivered was truly accurate, and most likely, the contract he offers Republicans will be the one he adheres to while in office.
i like Rudy…
but not certain he looks up to the task.
just competing in Florida was a huge mistake, in my opinion.
Rudy is a true problem solver, just like Romney, and the two have used sound conservative policy solutions in very liberal agendas, getting the job done.
both are very impressive, but in the debates, the campaign, Romney has grown because he competed everywhere.
Romney has shown great temperament in the debates and campaign, and his ability to go after Huckabee, McCain, on their records in a professional manner, is a very sincere indication he will run a strong race against Hillary or Obama.
i was disappointed Rudy wasn’t able to run in the NY Senate Race against Hillary…
his health remains a concern…
i think you should review the Romney offering, because even Ann Coulter could not find what liberals often promote as ‘flip – flops’.
“One clue that Romney is our strongest candidate is the fact that Democrats keep viciously attacking him while expressing their deep respect for Mike Huckabee and John McCain…
…Liberals claim to be enraged at Romney for being a “flip-flopper.” I’ve looked and looked, and the only issue I can find that Romney has “flipped” on is abortion. When running for office in Massachusetts – or, for short, “the Soviet Union” – Romney said that Massachusetts was a pro-choice state and that he would not seek to change laws on abortion.”
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59734
I will vote for whoever gets the nomination AJ, but saying there is no difference between McCain and Obama on the war is just plain silly. Obviously there is. In fact the candidate most likely to pursue the war is McCain.
And you know what? McCain reminds me of Republicans like Ford, they were not firebrands, but they are not liberal either. McCain is prolife and fiscally conservative.
I would certainly vote for Romney if he got the nomination, but frankly the same conservatives who bitch about McCAin have done nothing but bitch about Bush for years now, and he is a conservative.
I think the Republicans are quite capable of picking their nominee without a bunch of pundits and bloggers and self styled experts telling them how to do it.
And McCain deserves better, he spent years in a POW camp and he has not wavered in his devotion to his country. People might not always agree with him, but he deserves to be treated with respect. Fred Thompson never served in the military. I don’t think military service is required for the office,but I think McCAin has a better idea of what making a sacrifice for your country really means than some people do.
I knew a man who spent 3 years in a POW camp in the Phillippines in WW2. He hated MacArthur, FDR, the Japanese and just about everyone. He felt he had been used and abandoned. I have never seen any of that kind of bitterness from McCain.
And Thompson and Bush supported McCAin Feingold too. I am so sick of hearing people complain about that silly bill. Ordinary people do not even care about it or know what it is. It does not effect free speech if most people are not even aware of its existence unless someone bitches about it.
McCain hard left that is just insane. AJ, he was one of the few people that would have agreed with you on immigration and here you are treating the man like a leftist. Ridiculous.
I like Rudy, but he is looking dead. Romney is in the lead in Florida according to Rasmussen. Another poll taken today said if Thompson drops out 73% of his supporters will back Romney… Romney is in good shape. It looks like were down to the final two: Romney vs. McCain.
Terrye,
So what if he has Iraq and Immigration right? He is wrong on taxes, stem cell research, GITMO, etc. And all I said was he was the most left of the three. I never said he was a Kucinich. I don’t work in black or white or one dimension.
CK,
You and others need to read my words carefully. What I said was he would not be much different in the end result – I think he would be too willing to compromise with Reid and Pelosi where Bush stood firm. McCain was too quick to lay blame on Bush and Rumsfeld for what was in effect the need for the Sunnis to learn a harsh lesson about al-Qaeda.
I might as well vote Obama over McCain for all the good it will do for the Iraq war.
That’s about the only sentence I disagree with AJ. Excellent post!
Has anyone wondered how Rudy became the invisible man after polling so high for so long? His campaign made the mistake of thinking they could avoid some of the incoming fire from the MSM and the Right. That was correct but the results were a disaster. The Shamnesty shouters united with the so called Christians and immediately announced they would never vote for him. They hold the majority of the Pug Pundits. MSM laughed behind their hands because it was the same as when the GOP was tearing itself apart (immigration) and giving the Dem base a free ride ……just sit back and enjoy the show. The Silence. Invisible Man.
AJS – when your argument of virtual equivalence reaches the point that you refer demonstratively to “ObaCain” and “McHillary,” you rather forestall any efforts to “read…carefully” especially during this period during which extreme MDS is visibly sweeping the right blogosphere.
I strongly disagree that the “end result” wouldn’t be “much different” on foreign or any other policy. McCain’s political personality and the resurgence of his campaign are based on his stubbornness in the fight against Pelosi-Reid-Clinton-Obama surrenderism, and those intimately familiar with events in DC during ’06 and ’07 strongly credit McCain with heading off disaster, including disastrous pseudo-compromises that would have hobbled the war effort.
I agree with you that McCain’s criticism of Rumsfeld has been excessive, but the Rumseld strategy was also faulty. In any event, as a very wise man once said, history does not reveal its alternatives. In the here and now, McCain and a McCain mandate would be rather unambiguously associated with “100 years if necessary” on our commitments in the war. Obama and Clinton are “withdrawal ASAP.” Everything else is window-dressing.
McCain for all his faults would lead an administration inestimably more accessible to conservatives and conservative ideas than one led by Hillary or Obama and backed by a Democratic Congress. I hope that, if he does win the nomination, he quickly moves to re-establish his conservative bona fides, in VP selection and other formal and informal commitments. Even before such moves, however, to see him, his platform, and his history as equivalent or nearly equivalent to those of the Democrats, currently running as far to the left as they ever have in their history, requires a squint from the absurdly far right – not the kind of perspective I ever expected to see in this blog.
And McCain deserves better, he spent years in a POW camp and he has not wavered in his devotion to his country. People might not always agree with him, but he deserves to be treated with respect.
If I have disrespected McCain’s military service, I’m sorry. I can not imagine the horrors the man experienced in the POW camp.
Should I automatically give him my vote and does it bestow on him the mantle of moral authority about all things? I remember that some thought that Sheehan spoke for all war Moms.
McCain is not running for most tortured POW. He has a Senate record and thousands of MSM interviews. He does not hold the decision making in his hands……yet. If he ever does, I will shut up about all his past record. BTW, it may not be PC to say, but I think he is too old for that job that ages them overnight.
This is very strange for me, AJ. At the same time you seem to be going thumbs down on McCain, he is rising in my estimation every day! A funny thing happened to me on the way to Florida… Mac captured my attention, won my respect, and surged ahead of Rudy on my list. He’s a lot more conservative than Rudy, if you put them side by side on the conservative butcher table (which is not my standard anymore). But I am still hoping Rudy makes us all gasp on Jan. 29th in Florida.
McCain-Feingold is a non-issue outside the echo chamber I think. And I have to say it dropped off my radar. Mac’s a flawed man, to be sure, but I can’t imagine how you can say “McCain has spent is life fighting conservatism and trying to move the party and country left.”
AJ:
I have had to listen to all these people accuse each other of raising taxes. But for heavens sakes, Romney and Giulliani are from Mass and NYC respectively. There is no way they are more conservative fiscally than McCain is. And McCain has gotten on board with the tax cuts, even though he initially said they would lead to deficits. So what? All these guys have changed on something.
Romney supported embryonic stem cell research, I saw him on FOX talking about it. Has he changed his position? Maybe. Giulliani was prochoice, how else could he win in New York.
And there is no way that I am going to believe that McCain is going to turn terrorists lose. Even Secretary of Defense Gates said that Gitmo has hurt us in many ways. I think the problem there is that they do not know what to do with it or the people they have housed there. No one wants to keep it forever, including the Bush administration.
The point is all these people are trying to pacify the base to get votes. You are ignoring the fact that none of these guys are going to make everyone happy. I just want to see the process play itself out without conservatives doing the same thing they did in 92…that would be helping elect a Clinton because they were feeling pissy.
AJ, you have gone off the deep end with your pal Mac and Hugh Hewitt. Real basic question for you. How many times did McCain vote to surrender in Iraq vs how many times did Hillary and Obama. Did McCain call the commanding general a liar. To say that there is no difference between McCain and the Ds on Iraq is the most outrageous statement I’ve ever heard. Somebody above coined the phrase McCain Derangement Syndrome. You have it badly.
McCain agrees with your position on immigration. He’s a deficit hawk, against Medicare expansion and for ear-mark reform. His opposition to the Bush tax cuts is very wel documented as being because they didn’t accompany spending cuts. I think he was wrong for it but he is right on spending. He’s in favor now of a tax cut and spending cuts. The only piece of BCFR that I found as going too far was shot-down by the courts. Good. Plenty of conservative legislation was shot down by the courts. The courts have spoken. Would we have Roberts and Alito on the SC without the Gang of 14, who knows. That group all but guaranteed that they woud be confirmed. BTW, Frist didn’t have the votes for the nuclear option, the Ds called his bluff and Mccain saved his ass by getting some judges approved. Was it perfect, no but given the alternatives, it was better than another Souter or two, which was the alternative.l
Your blog has taken a severe credibility hit over your assessments of McCain. If you want to support somebody else, go for it, its your forum. But your ridiculous.obviously exaggerated criticisms of Mccain do nothing but confirm everything liberals say about conservatives, whether you say you are independent or not.
Reading you is very discouraging for the future of conservatism. I think you need a severe reality check.
Owl:
I am not saying you or anyone has to vote for the guy, but some of the stuff the right has said about him is vicious. It is the same kind of attack they usually like to level against Bush. wholesale, self destructive and needlessly personal.
And Rudy has no one but himself to blame for getting behind in the polls. It certainly is not the fault of McCain or Romney or anyone else. He just screwed up.
Rich:
You are right about the Gang. The votes were not there for the nuclear option and if they had been, imagine how that would have worked out when the Democrats controlled the Senate.