Jul 02 2007
GOP Trying To Remove Immigration Stain
Update: Harold Hutchison has the numbers showing the GOP lost massive support from independents, moderates and hispanics between their huge successes in 2004 and their butt whooping in 2006. Not to worry though, I am sure they will be able to eclipse their 2006 results in 2008, and get whooped even worse. All is well and fine for the GOP!
– end update
I have to laugh. Unlike the Amnesty Hypochondriacs in the GOP who exaggerated everything they could think of to make the Immigration Bill (and the people it was aimed to address) as distasteful as possible, I was not exaggerating in my predictions of what would the GOP reap for such hate filled idiocy. The GOP told itself this was some great effort for the GOP to save humanity as we know it. I simply looked at the political calculations on either side to see which path could do maximum good/harm to either side. Passing the bill maximized the good for the GOP, not passing it maximized the harm. The Dems ALWAYS had the opportunity to exploit this if the hypochondriacs showed their usual lack of self control. And boy did they make good on that bet!
Bush and the bill’s proponents gave the far right too much credit for being able to hold reasonable debate and be reasonable in the resulting compromise. They thought these people could set aside their biases and hate and be the legislative leaders everyone thought they could be, deep down inside. Sadly, the reality is the inverse. The facade of legislative leader hid the deep down bias and anger. And therefore the GOP screwed itself by exposing their dark side on this issue. Michael Barone makes a decent, yet lame, attempt to salvage dignity from the most undignified of acts; the tarring of people based on race, ethnicity and nationality.
But the reality is the Dems can and will exploit the GOP’s hate filled blunders for the next year and a half. They only need to post the disgusting comments that blessed so many rightwing sites to remind Hispanics that the dark, hidden soul of the GOP hates Hispanics:
Democrats sensing an opportunity for gains among the nation’s fastest-growing minority group swarmed a gathering of 1,000 Hispanic elected officials from across the nation here this weekend.
…
They came with one big advantage – the fact that Republicans are taking most of the blame for the decisive defeat of the immigration reform bill in the Senate last week.
In a forum for the candidates, all of the Democrats lamented defeat of the bill, and several denounced what they suggested was a racist or anti-Hispanic tinge to the arguments used against it.
Barack Obama, for example, said there was “an ugly overtone” in the debate, which he said was absent from the debate over the same bill last year, and accused opponents of using “the politics of fear.”
Is there a dark side inside the GOP? I would quibble with Obama and say the ugly side was the ‘undertone’, not the ‘overtone’. But trust me, this is not a distinction which will make a difference. Yes, there is a segment of the Amnesty Hypochondriacs who are very much the kind of people I would never want to associate with. And since I am not in the GOP (and never have been) I am not worried about being associated with them. But for all those who allied with these people, the stain is there and it has set in. And what appear to be Freudian slips of the tonque by GOP front runners is not helping:
Buzz at the conference also focused on a gaffe by potential GOP candidate Fred Thompson, who seemed to refer to Cuban immigrants as terrorists in a speech to a South Carolina Republican Party gathering Wednesday.
Way to go Fred. But the slip of the tongue was nothing compared to the cold shoulder the GOP sent the Hispanic Community:
The Republican presidential candidates all cited scheduling conflicts in failing to attend the conference, and it came at an awkward time – the end of a quarterly fundraising period when all candidates are preoccupied with raising money.
The only path out of this is to reverse course with a mea culpa and resurrecting the bill. The only way to cleanse the stain is to clean house. So therefore there is not going to be any serious reconciliation for the GOP with Hispanics and moderates. The die is set and fate has set things in motion. The GOP wil not be saved by wins in Iraq. In fact, success in Iraq will provide even more rational to dump the GOP in 2008 – their job done and the immediate need for them reduced a bit.
This is cold, logical observation – there is no attempt to get even on my part. I predicted all this before hand. To win in politiics one exploits the misteps of their opponent. When the opponent provides you a mistake you can use for decades to come, it is impossible to resist maximizing that opportunity. I warned the GOP that they did not want to go down this route. But too many are so cocky and sure and such infallible legends in their own minds they forgot one little thing. They are human and humans make really, really bad decision and really, really big mistakes with the best of intentions in their minds. All the time.
The GOP is in no mood to admit their mistake, and the Dems will exploit those horrific mistakes to their maximum benefit. And no one will feel pity on the GOP when the Democrats exaggerate the evil of the Republican Party – the same way the GOP exaggerated the evil of immigrants. Someone should have thought of that before they went off half cocked. Touche’! The GOP has sliced it own nose cleanly off – as predicted. I have little sympathy for them at the moment. I think it best they ponder the fruits of the efforts for some time to come.
Link to Malkin not working, long live the voice of reason.
When did Malkin start making purity rants? Never heard her do that.
We need more like her, at least she has a clue.
imagine that. there are some people who have the nerve to actually agree with AJ.
And that’s just fantastic, then he doesn’t have to worry about that, does he?
FE,
That’s the last time you misrepresent my words on my site. Don’t ask to come back again.
Dale:
Why would you think I even had you in mind?
FE. HA HA HA. You are still in your comical form.
It boggles my mind that some here think that breaking the failed immigration bill into its components and passing them is a feasible option.
The reason for the compromise, comprehensive immigration bill was because each individual component would be hard to pass on their own because of the current make-up of the Congress.
And the reason for the current make-up of the Congress is because the hissyfitters and their previous radical behavior have alienated (no pun intended) their more moderate Republican brethren.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
“Since when are the children who are legal by virtue of their birth in the U.S. (a miscontruction of the 14 amendement but recognized none the less) can’t vote? The can, and do, vote.”
Most of the 3.1 millon are below the age of 18 thus cannot vote
“How do we gain the world’s smartest by granting immediate legality to millions of people, 60% who have less than a high school education?”
As the bill was aiming to do we would be heading toward a merit system By the way it would be help if the bill opponents denounce FAIR, Numbers USA and others that are trying to kill any provision to expand immigration by this group of hight tech workers. That would at tleast mitigate the damage
For people that have moderate skill they do seem to be coming in handy. They were needed partially because of growth that was started by more “educated people” This growth spurs a need for people that might not even have a high degree of education
What gave us the most border security was really the Verfication system That in a way is the real fence
Drawbacks? Well I thought the guest worker numbers were too low. I also would like some more legislation with setting up a FED like system system where the amount of Guest workers are tied to future Economic forcast
I think legislation that would have promoted the use of faith based groups for assimilation purpses, Teaching English etc would have been something to look into
I would have liked to see some more ideas as to keeping the high tech students and immigratns here that are either in our schools or business community. I think we need to get more aggressive on that front
Those were some of the drawbacks. Of course the Senate bill was not even a finished piece of legislation yet and of Course we were going to have a great opportunity to explore all this in the House with the Strive act. However it appears that input and those new ideas will not be even able ot listened to and engaged this year.
LE, R05, are welcome over here.
DaleinAtlanta
One more try!
I was kind of tickled the way I just heard a talk show host twist the criticism against the far right. The logic kind of went something like this:
Criticism that the Republicans will lose a majority of the hispanic vote is moot because the Republican never had a majority of that vote and were attempting to pander to that demographic to get their vote.
That is pretty silly. “illegals” aren’t just hispanic and only 50% of them ever set foot in Mexico in their whole life. Half of them get here on legitimate visas and simply stay after the visas expire. Building the biggest fence in the world won’t stop them, that ONLY stops hispanics from Mexico. It doesn’t stop terrorists from Canada.
But here is my problem with the cement head right wing mindset:
Say you want a fence on the border and a bill comes along that builds, say, 100 miles of it. You argue against it because it isn’t enough. It is “all or nothing” politics. So you end up with nothing. Now, are you better off? Instead, you could have had 100 miles of fence and next year put in a bill for another 100 miles and so on. But no, you got a big fat nothing. The extremes of both parties are incapable of mature, patient, reasoned thinking. They seem to be at the emotional level of a 6 year old. They want everything right now exactly the way they want it or they torpedo anything else offered. Then they end up with exactly nothing.
I also believe there are some mobys out there who are pretending to be Republican and arguing for extremely harsh bills in order to make the Republicans look bad. Look for people you never saw on the net before this issue came up and whose only issue if importance is immigration and who are very focused only on the Southern border and not focused on the overall problem. Those people are likely Democratic or Libertarian (of the Ron Paul ilk) nuts who are attempting to sabotage the Republicans by making an extreme position appear more popular than it actually is.
What the Republicans risk losing isn’t gaining a majority of the Hispanic vote, or pandering to get any more than they have now. What they are going to lose is what percentage they already had. And right now the Republicans can’t afford to lose anything they already have.
The First thing Michelle Malkin can do that would be helpful is quit her association with VDARE. Perhaps by starting to take the link off her page. That is intself an embarrasement. I mean even Free Republic has it on it list of prohibited sites to link too.
Excellent post, Cross.
Let’s see; the GOP is going to lose votes of a bloc they never had in the first place. Rasmussen is reporting that Hispanics have not changed their opinions on “illegal” immigration since the bill failed, i.e. they still are split 44-44% on it. But hey, we might have gained a few thousand votes from people who have been raised in socialist governments who decided they preferred our system. OK?
What the “pro-amnesty” bunch is saying is “we will give you the benefit of the doubt because we think you are all here to work” without requiring any conditions, like applying for legal residency, on the illegals. So we trust them to do the right thing and hope for the best? In a time of post 9-11 thinking, this is not only stupid, it is suicide.
I know you who agree with AJ thinks that all those MS-13 gangbangers are just waiting to come out of the shadows. I know you think that all those who sell false documentation to illegals are just waiting for a chance to be honest.
You really don’t have a clue, do you? What you are advocating is the continuance of paying uneducated people wages that are just a few dollars short of making them the new slave class. What the hell is wrong with you people? Are you advocating allowing companies to continue to do this? It would seem so. And if the companies are required to hire people at livable wages, what is the benefits to hiring someone who can’t speak English? Do you think that by legalizing millions of people it will end the quest for those who will work under the table for less money? Do you think it will stop the bleeding of our hospitals trying to provide medical care for those who come to replace the newly “minted” legals who are now demanding higher wages? Do you really think that those who are now made legal, will not be replace with those who are not?
It seems that rational thought has no place here.
One thing I have noticed about Michelle is she seems above average on the narcissism scale. I don’t mean that as an insult, as we all have varying degrees of narcissism, just that she appears to be considerably above average in that respect as do just about all politicians, pundits, and celebrities of any sort. But with her it seems to manifest in campaigns of intimidation in order to get her political way. Examples are the brick campaign, the feather campaign, and the campaign touted on Hot Air to demand refunds from the RNC. It says “I am going to threaten you in order to get you to change your behavior and behave the way I want you to”. It is basically bullying. It isn’t using reason, it isn’t a dialog, it isn’t attempting to persuade someone else by the use of logic or listening to THEIR viewpoint and possibly allowing yourself to see that perspective (God forbid, because a change of view would then be “flip flopping” or “compromising principles or something). Nope, the only changing of views allowed is someone to come to your position and if you can’t do it by logic, you do it with threats and intimidation. You resort to attempting to damage your opponent in the debate.
It is sophomoric.
OK, so you don’t like Malkin. Explain to me why you don’t like Asians because the only reason you could possibly have for not liking her would be her ethnic heritage. At least that is the litmus test you have applied to all of us who were against this bill.
“What you are advocating is the continuance of paying uneducated people wages that are just a few dollars short of making them the new slave class.”
I think all this talk of “slave Class” is overblown and not very helpful but that is just me. There will not be a permanent slave class. The link above that AJ gave in the Green card post was illuminating. People that risk life and limb at times to get here seem to be the type of Go doers we want. As one on my soilders(I think now American) that Michael Yons profiles puts it “I am a Mexi-CAN not a Mexi-Cant.
Ther are no slave owners anymore. There are no big landowners and plantations that contol the lives of their workers like Feudal Lords of old. We have a amazing amount of growth in the business sector from the hispanic community and other immigrant groups. The access of Captiol is more available and it is showing benefits. THe fact is putting off legalization makes them more of a slave class and every year that goes by we don’t do it is another year these people cannot be their full potential. We and their families are the losers in that
Some of Michelle’s opinions are great and I like to listen to what she has to say as it is an important perspective that I use to form my own opinion. I, however, don’t agree with the notion that you do real damage to your own party in order to do something. In fact, you should be engaging them in dialog, not taking their money away from you. From that point forward they are not likely to ever listen to Michelle again.
For example … now that the immigration debate is over … I haven’t seen anything on her Hot Air site that says “okay, if you demanded a refund from the RNC you can give it back now because the storm has passed”. So … she got what she apparently wanted (nothing), and the RNC is still damaged. You think the RNC is ever going to be inclined to listen to Michelle in the future? She ends up doing more damage to the Republican party than to the Democrats. That’s because the Dems aren’t listening to her anyway, the only ones listening are Republicans, and she tells them to do things that hurt the Republican party. Actually, you can almost consider her the most insidious kind of moby.
“not taking their money away from you.”
Meant “not taking their money away from them”
biglsufan, what do you call people who make substandard wages that have to depend on others to provide for them? You say there is no new slave class? Are you daft, man? Do you really think that illegals who are making $4.00 an hour are much better off than those who were bought and sold?
Slave owners were mostly farimers. Who do you think hires so many illegals? But do they even give them a place to live or do they expect them to fend for themselves on $4.00 an hour? Where are all the medical benefits provided by the corporate farms for their employees? Why do you think AJ was complaining about illegals piling into apartments violating the rental laws of his city? Why are they doing that? Because they are all making a wage that would allow them to pay for their own apartment?
You are so blind to the realities of what is going on while still refusing to answer the questions I pose to you.
Let’s start with this one: do you think making millions of people legal will end illegal immigration?
Crosspatch , Malkin has never been one of my favorites either. I think she has a good business angle and plays it well. But for thoughtful analysis on the whole I find her lacking and not one to roack the boat with her demographic that she markets too.
She plays a role in the political system and conservative movement and at times a very helpful role. However she is in the end more of a liability
This is shown in her Recall Mel Martinez campaign
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/30/recall-mel-martinez/
I meaan the folly of that is so apparent. Make war and try to remove The Cuban American Senator. I mean look at this bio from wilki
“Martinez was born in Sagua La Grande, Cuba, to Gladys V. Ruiz and Melquiades C. Martinez.[1] He came to the United States in 1962 as part of a Roman Catholic humanitarian effort called Operation Peter Pan, which brought into the U.S. more than 14,000 children. Catholic charitable groups provided Martinez a temporary home at two youth facilities. At the time Martinez was alone and spoke virtually no English. He subsequently lived with two foster families, and in 1966 was reunited with his family in Orlando.
Martinez graduated from the Florida State University College of Law in 1973. During his 25 years of law practice in Orlando, he was involved in various civic organizations. He served as Vice-President of the Board of Catholic Charities of the Orlando Diocese.”
Oh yeah that would be great. LEt us lose Florida forever. It is amazing that George Bush and Jeb efforts have shown some conservatives nothing.
But in the end Malkin doesnt want to look after the long term health of the GOP. She just wishes to make money
I also believe there are some mobys out there who are pretending to be Republican and arguing for extremely harsh bills in order to make the Republicans look bad. Look for people you never saw on the net before this issue came up and whose only issue if importance is immigration and who are very focused only on the Southern border and not focused on the overall problem. Those people are likely Democratic or Libertarian (of the Ron Paul ilk) nuts who are attempting to sabotage the Republicans by making an extreme position appear more popular than it actually is.
Very definitely, Crosspatch. Matter of fact, I’ve noticed many Milita/Patriot/Christian Identity screen names began to pop up in tandem with the heightening immigration “debate.” It’s not my imagination and I am not claiming some hidden conspiracy. The fact is, there is an element of far right extremists out there (who’ve always been out there) who seized the moment and attached themselves to a mainstream issue. They brought fanatical commitment and relentless energy to the fight — due to a far more dangerous agenda & worldview. In the process they spread a lot of poison and maliciously offended and drove away all allies of a slightly less rabid nature. So the debate went off the rails into a place where no compromise was every realistically possible. And to a place where normal people didn’t want to linger.
However, I am also forced to observe that the poseurs & agitators found a frightening amount of willing assent among a wider population of mainstream conservatives. I’ve watched friends and family members drop like flies to the prevailing hysteria. It is very, very disheartening and a rude awakening. I’ve learned things about former friends and admired persons that I wish I didn’t know.
Roughly on topic, did you see this little ditty from Dick Morris:
Was it a set up all along? Did the Dems lure Bush into a compromise knowing that the GOP base would go ballistic and inflict a high profile defeat on the president sure to cripple his presidency and give the Hispanics a well publicized slap-in-the-face courtesy of the GOP?
Only my appreciation of the lack of strategic intellect in the Democratic Party inhibits me from saying yes to all these questions. But I still wonder?
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/?p=119#more-119