Jul 01 2007
GOP Still Destroying Itself
The Immigration debacle is not over. The purity wars are in full bloom as the Amnesty Hypochondriacs move to make sure they will never come close to seeing real reform. In fact, some fools are calling for Sen Martinez to be defeated or recalled (which will, of course, leave Florida with TWO Democrat Senators).
That last point has the talk of “Recall†in Martinez’s district talking loudly. There is even a website collecting signatures.
The truth is the GOP is damaged goods and many people are walking away. And while some are trying to stay on, they cannot hide their feelings:
But the bill’s demise may have greatly damaged the party’s ability to meet its enduring goal of attracting a large percentage of the growing number of Hispanic voters — thousands of whom are ostensibly in line with the party on a host of other issues, said many Republican lawmakers, consultants and Hispanic voters.
“There may be some short-term gain from this,†said Linda Chavez, who served in the Reagan administration and is now chairwoman of the Center for Equal Opportunity, a conservative public policy group. “But in the long term, it is disastrous for the Republican Party.â€
…
“I think it’s bloody for the Republicans,†said Antonio Gonzalez, president of the William C. Velasquez Institute, a Latino-oriented research and policy organization with offices in San Antonio and Los Angeles. “The Democrats said pro-immigrant stuff, and even if they didn’t support it, it was because they said it wasn’t good enough. The Republicans said anti-immigrant stuff and so now they are going to get killed with this.â€
It is a view that many Republicans share. Mr. McCain, who in May told Republicans that “the Hispanic vote is turning against us in very large numbers,†expressed similar thoughts privately this week, aides said.
In an interview on Friday, Mr. Martinez, who is chairman of the national Republican Party, called the bill’s defeat “a bipartisan failure.†To win favor with Hispanics in the future, “We’ve got our work cut out for us,†he said. “I consider it serious.â€
Abel Maldonado, a prominent Hispanic Republican in the California State Senate, said he felt that both parties were damaged, but that “It hurts the Republican party a little bit more in terms of bringing more minorities into the party.â€
I could go over to rightwing websites and find a host of hate being spewed at Chavez, but what’s the point? The GOP tolerates the haters and relies on them. But what is the point?There will be no new immigration legistlation for years to come, and the GOP will also be in the minority for years to come. So what is someone to do if they want action on this or any other issue? Well, the GOP is not going to be the place to look for years to come – that much is for sure.
Republicans have showed signs of making clear inroads in recent years among Hispanic voters. President Bush took roughly 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California won roughly the same percentage of Hispanic voters in his state in his re-election in 2006 — a strong showing for any Republican candidate here.
But the party saw only about 25 percent of Hispanic voters come its way in the midterm elections last year, an alarming trend for the Republicans looking at 2008. Many Republicans fear that loss of essentially half their market share, though they were not willing to say so on the record.
Say adios to the GOP as a major political voice in 2008. Even in the insiders know the truth they are afraid to say in public. More here.
It is really obvious to me that the GOP shot itself in the foot bigtime and their pandering to a small but very vocal minority of people in this country is going to end marginalizing them. I generally donate to the GOP but probably not this year because too much money would go to Republicans who voted against the immigration bill.
The party needs a charismatic leader who can bring the more “out in right field” factions into sync with the majority of people in this country.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOP loses ever single Senate seat up for election in 08.
Then the far right can scream and yell and jump up and down all they want, nobody is going to listen to them and their votes in congress won’t matter because their wont be enough. Sad thing is they will probably blame others for their demise rather than looking in the mirror. That is what a face looks like with it’s nose cut off.
Hmmmmmmm….??
After Immigration Debate, Number of Republicans actually INCREASES, and Number of Democrats DECREASES!
rasmussen has been consistently out of line with *everyone else* in the immigration polling.
it has been only a week, there is no way physically possible they could detect a change in the number of party identification in that short a period of time
I would say that particular poll is fickle, it is a blip, check it again in a couple of weeks or look at the TREND of that number over several weeks. No doubt it will be down. Republican voter registration is diminishing and that is accelerating over the past couple of years (particularly since House Republicans shot down the last immigration bill).
Believe what you want. The next election is going to wake a lot of people up. We will see for sure in about 16 months and no internet poll will mean a pinch of owl poop at that point. There is really one one poll that matters.
look long-term Strata
After a generation of Latino reconquering there will arise a third party with a leader to the right of Buchanan….and Duke!
and he will lead a glorious counter-revolution!
The GOP tolerates the haters and relies on them.
A.J., this is what is eating at me. I suspect by the time election day 08 rolls around, I will end up leaving the GOP and [officially] becoming an Independent.
Maybe it’s too early to tell, but thus far, there is no sign of restraint or a hint of self-awareness from the Amen choir. 11 pm on Friday night we were returning from an ice cream outing and got blasted with the dozenth or so replay of Sean Hamnesty’s ambush of Voinovich. We switched the channel but again were reminded of the insanity… it seems there is no escape.
In other news, I read something by a conservative in Wash Times yesterday calling Bush the “Dhimmi” in chief. Then read the article today on Gingrich the mad professor… bonkers. Then read Rudy’s very disappointing comments about immigration, Bush, etc. Fred was calling the dead bill a “victory” last week, etc. etc.
You know what makes me mad is that I’m going to get pushed out of the party by a minority mob.
Crosspatch & SallyVee: so desperately wrong, so sad…
“After a generation of Latino reconquering there will arise a third party with a leader to the right of Buchanan….and Duke!
and he will lead a glorious counter-revolution! ”
thecentercannothold it is statements like this that are not helpful at all. I do wish those that believe in such stuff would go ahead and leave the party now and go off and join the Council of Conservative Citizens, the GEORGE BUSH IS SECRETLY BEHIND THE NAU, and the other assorted stuff that is spouted by people like THe political Cesspool show and the Const. Pary.
Sally Vee I really think the choice we only have is to stay in the GOP. For all the talk of independents the party structure is power and how to achieve ideas in a practical sense. If we leave the party the Coalition we ill procced to break up and the Democrat agenda will be in full power.
I have ot think that even the Presidential 08 hopefuls that are saying the stuff they feel they need to at this point realize the long term picture as to the hispanic vote. We can put some of our hope in that.
AJ, I think you’ve forgotten one minor factor….immigration is a pivot issue. It cuts across party lines.
You’re focused on the notion that this will drive Hispanics away from the Republican party, and ignored the fact that border security will attract former Democrats to the Republican ranks. It may make things harder in Florida….but easier in Pennsylvania.
Has the debate been heated? Certainly. But both sides have an equal portion of blame, and I suspect that a year from now, you may look on your posts of the last few weeks with a wince.
As to the lack of an immigration bill…nonsense. The public will is strongly in favor of the immediate construction of a proper barrier wall. And a good part of the opposition to this bill has been that both parties have proven themselves untrustworthy when it comes to sealing the border. It’s always been “wall tomorrow, never wall today”. This is no longer in the hands of the party powerbrokers….the electorate is demanding action, and will make things very hot for any politican who gets in the way.
The irony being that with a barrier wall completed, the legalization versus expulsion debate loses a lot of the heat. The Barrier Wall keeps matters from getting worse, which bounds the problem to be solved. It buys a lot of trade space.
And there is one thing that we both need to remember…we can’t afford to let the Democrats win in 2008. We’re both in the potential fallout zone from a terrorist strike on Washington.
“The irony being that with a barrier wall completed, the legalization versus expulsion debate loses a lot of the heat”
I dismayed that we seem to be building a fence for what will largely be symbolic. The virtual fence and its radar capability is where we should be going and spending money in. That can be used not only our Southern Border but Northern border too.
That aside the fence will do precious little to stop the 40 percent of people who enter legally and stay.
I very much doubt that the Immigration issue is a big one that will bring people to the Republican party. THe one reason this issue is so hot among Latinos right now really doesnt have to do with immigration. It is the rethoric that is in the background that is offensive to them. Retoric that THECENTERMUSTHOLD just put on display
The far right on the immigration issue is making the mistake the far left makes on issues of their own. THey think on numerous issues the COuntry is just enthralled and if they hold firm the massess will come. Well in the end most Americans are not that interested in the issues that captivate the Dem Underground.
Also as has been pointed out this illegal immigration problem in the long term is pretty self correcting demograpghic wise long term. The border security measures should be pretty good once we have another great spurt of Economic growth. The problem is there will be no guest worker or Worker ID to meet the needs of Business to Foreign Labor. That is a problem in many ways
The latest Gallup poll said that only about 18% of the population is paying a lot of attention to this, and ofcourse a disproportionate number of that 18% is making comments about the Jeb Bush’s wife being a Mexican and his son having brown skin, or silly crap like that.
And rasmussen has proven itself an outlier in this all along. Hey, but don’t believe me, just wait until the next election. I know some conservative Republicans lost after last year’s hissy fit and so far they have blamed everyone but the people throwing the hissy fits. So, why expect them take responsibility now? Just keep telling yourself that the whole country is turning into Pat Buchanan.
And then of course they get morally outraged whenever someone calls them bigots. I wonder if the Democrats will use some of the thousands of hateful and racist comments we have seen on rightie blogs and heard on the talk radio when they run? I wonder if they will use the conspiracy theories to discredit Republicans as serious people who can be trusted. After all, after listening to some of the off the wall stuff about this bill and Bush and Graham and McConnel and Kyle and McCain, I can honestly say there are people on the right who are every bit as nuts as Rosie O’Donnel or Ward Churchill ever thought about being.
They say it is just about illegal immigration, but I don’t think that is true. It is about rabble rousing around an emotionally charged issue in the hopes that they can bully the leadership into kissing their behinds so that they can take control of the party. It is no different than the nutroots making the Democratic presidential hopefuls suck up to them.
Same tactics.
However, the problem is these people have left us stuck with this problem with no better plan and what is more they have made rational debate on the subject almost impossible.
Martinez did not just face this silly stuff of recall for sticking to his principles, he received death threats as well. Several of the Senators have been threatened. Yep, death threats over an issue that Newt Gingrich could not even bother to bring himself to address when he was in the Congress. Now he lectures.
I know I don’t trust these socalled party faithfuls who use their tactics, I think they are dishonest and dangerous to the party.
I hope the next president we have has the guts to stand up the Hannitys and the Kos’s and Malkins. If not, there is no way they will have the guts for the job.
And they have not begun to deal with the fact that the wall, even when it is completed will not deal with the millions here, or the millions who find another way here. But like I said, I don’t think they really care about dealing with the problem, they just want to demagogue the issue, otherwise they would not consider the status quo a victory. So I guess they don’t really mind it all that much after all.
Mike:
Why shouldn’t the Democrats win 2008, because of the war? Well, Republicans do not mind stabbing Bush in the back whenever it suits them, whether it is Miers or immigration or whatever the hell it is they feel like having a cow about at the time, and the fact that he is a war President and the Commander in Chief means nothing to the people calling him dhimmi in chief or some such nonsense. And then there were the conservatives saying Republicans should sit home in 2006 and let the Democrats win…how concerned were they with the war?
No, I voted for the Republicans because of national security issues and they have turned into a freaking lynch mob for whom the war is a distant and dim memory. The socalled base is too busy trying to take out fellow Republicans to give a damn about the war and the Presidential hopefuls are such sissies that they can not even stand up to them.
When Fred Thompson was in the Senate, his voting record was like McCain’s. Even Rudy is running scared.
So why should a voter like me support Republicans? The only reason is that there are people like Biglsu fan still in the party.
We mind , we see the law breakers everyday using our resources and breaking the medical services and school systems of this country. Try dial 1 for english. A wall in of itself isn’t the answer but a virtual wall with the will to enforce the law and equal will to prosecute employers who exploit this cheap labor source will go a long way toward solving this problem. Why should 20 million illegals jump in line infront of those waiting years to get citizenship? If someone jumped the line on you at a nearly sold out movie wouldn’t you be furious? Then you find out later you bought their popcorn and drinks? Stop the freebees and the spanish in the classroom. They come here, they learn the language and be productive and I’m fine with it and a lot of honest, non-racist Americans of both parties feel the same way. Americans aren’t looking at this as political win- lose they are looking at it as right vs. wrong. That is why the in the beltway deal makers have heard and will continue to hear from us.
dhunter
” we see the law breakers everyday using our resources and breaking the medical services and school systems of this country”
That is a problem in some places. But these “lawbreakers” also contributed much need labor that helped expand the GNP and economic growth of this Country. That helped us all. Many people see this as US versu Them especaiily as to US versu business. I think that is a unwise away of going about this.
“will to prosecute employers who exploit this cheap labor source will go a long way toward solving this problem. Why should 20 million illegals jump in line infront of those waiting years to get citizenship”
Some of these labor is Cheap. But don’t think all of it is. Most of these folks are not making 5 bucks a hour. Also, as has been pointed out the Illegals would not be jumping in line in front of anyone for citizenship. Under the proposed bill the backlog would have to be cleared up first. Further, we need to return to what we had in the past. THat is circular work migration. Not everyone that comes here watns to be a citizen
” If someone jumped the line on you at a nearly sold out movie wouldn’t you be furious?”
I would be curious if we actually took a poll of the people “standing in line” what they would think about the proposed bill. THere seems to be a lot of people speaking for them right now. Just curious if that study was ever done of people “currently standing in line”. If people are against the bill because of fairness perhaps they should be asked
” Stop the freebees and the spanish in the classroom. ”
Whether we have bi lingual programs or not should be decided at a local level. Not through a Nationwide immigration bill. We are conservatives that believe in local control are we not. From everything I can get my hands on this immigratn group is learning English as quickly as any other of its size. I suppose I ahve a different perpective. I know Good Patrotic Americans that Spoke French in the home and among their friends and at work etc in Louisiana. The Republic did not fall.
By the way My Parish could offer 3 or 4 more English classes we offer to immigrants quite easily. There is no lack of want. I ask people here that are complaining about “Press 1 For English” what ware doing to help meet that need in your Churches and Civic groups
One other word about freebies. I am involved in helping do our Friday night Spanish Mass. This is the mass that fullfills many peoples Sunday obligation. These people are all Latino of course and among the green card workers no doubt there are illegals. In fact I know they are.
THe Church Secretary always comments that every day she has calls and 6 or 7 people that come by the Church asking for money. However these hardwrokong people that have their own hardships rarely ask for anything. THey just want a chance to avail themselves of the Christ and his Church. I think that is a powerful statement she said.
I am against illegal immigration. I think we are all. I also realize that these people are here in violation of US code articles. BUt at some point there is a THeology of Work that must be considered. Their labors bring us benefits and for many years we accepted them. Now we are tired and now they are “lawbreakers”.
Dhunter:
Oh puhleaze.
Illegal entry is not a felony. You can call these people law breakers all you want, but the truth is they are part of the labor force and if people did not want or need them here, they would not be here.
The courts say the kids have to be educated, doctors have ethics when it comes to treating sick people, they are not going to let some sick kid die just because of where they were or were not born.
And this problem took decades to come about, it is not as if people woke up one day and discovered there were illegal aliens in the country and in a fight of self righteous indignation had a fit.
Where were all these lovers of the law a decade ago?
These people do not just use the resources, millions of them work here in an economy with an unemployment rate of less than 5%. In fact in Oklahoma the unemployment rate is only 3.9%. These people don’t just use the resources, they are also part of the economy.
I would prefer to see them paying fines and more taxes and working here legally, but the hardliners fixed it so that these people you are bitching about are going to go right on doing what they are doing. I would prefer to see stricter work place enforcement and tamper resistant ID required and background checks done, but the people raving about shamnesty killed all that, along with other additional enforcement and security measures as well.
So just what did they accomplish? These people you are whining about are still here and there is no indignation that will change.
Hey, the Klan is making a comeback. Don’t it make you proud?
Needless to say, they also thought the defeat of the bill was a victory.
Big LSU–
…The virtual fence and its radar capability is where we should be going and spending money in…
Oh, boy, then we can watch them pouring over the border. That really doesn’t help.
They just found another tunnel. It does no good to build a fence in the middle of freaking no where if no one is watching it. And that kind of technology is what the military uses in places like Afghanistan.
But what the hell, they killed the bill so the additional border agents will not be recruited and trained anyway so what difference does it make. It is not as if anyone really gives a damn anyway.
So I wonder what the immigration bill opponents think of this article.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287597,00.html
Probably will have to do a little tap-dancing to fit this article into your demented views that all illegals are criminals.
HA HA HA
AJ
Could you explain how a recall of Martinez would lead to two dem senators here.
First I don’t think a recall will succeed
Second a Rep Governor would make an interim appoint till a special election was held