Jun 20 2007
Immigration Bill Opposition Grasping
I have to laugh at the kind of twisted logic that claims there are no laws on the books to pay back taxes as they apply to illegal immigrants. Check out this laugher:
“It’s a good advocacy poll,” Camarota said. “I don’t see any neutral questions in the poll. It seems those who designed it have very strong views on immigration and tried as hard as possible to get the results they wanted.”
Camarota said phrases such as “paying fines and back taxes, proving good moral character and learning English” in the question about legalizing illegal immigrants, are misleading.
“These are fun questions,” he said. “Since the Senate does not actually require back taxes be paid. It just says you have to show you paid taxes.”
ROTFLMAO! Who would think this makes sense? Yes, I know I am going to royally piss off a lot of conservatives but it is this kind of silliness that makes it easy for me to do it. We have tax laws. You have to pay your income tax. You DON’T NEED another law saying pay your taxes to make it a requirement for being allowed to stay in this country. The requirement is quite clear, they have to show they paid their taxes. And how do you do that? You provide tax returns. Duh! No tax returns or any liens from the IRS from tax returns you submitted means no go for staying here.
It is stunning grown people can find some fantasy world through some bizarre twisting of words,where the fact is the language is simply leveraging existing laws (which ALL legislation does so as to not undo existing laws). Way too funny! The more I hear from the hypochondriacs the more confident I am that Bush is right and all we are seeing is emotion run amok pretending to be thought-out policy positions. Proof of paying taxes IS the same things as requiring all back taxes being paid. It means getting the OK from the IRS – which is no easy thing. And I would wager that every mythical problem with the current bill is based on the same bizarre extrapolations from misleading interpretations of the Bill’s language.
The article was written by Edward Sifuentes. Naw, no possibility of bias there.
Did anyone hear Tony Snow on Sean Hannity’s radio program yesterday? It was appalling. Sean more or less called Snow a liar. Snow seemed taken aback and said he’d reread the transcripts and said goodbye. Sean was not even listening to anything he said. The anger superceded logic, friendship, their past relationship and swung into hatred. Sean even said “these people” at one point which took Tony aback.
One thing, though, Mr. Strata: don’t confuse the GOP position with these right wing conservatives. President Bush represents the party and as I see it nothing on the GOP official platform goes against what he is saying. In fact, many are denying these isolationist racists.
Georgeann King,
Not to worry – my tongue is firmly in my cheek when I say the “GOP” is behind this madness. I am stunned Hannity was that bad. I am not stunned by Snow’s reactions. I hope the GOP finally gets fed up with these firebrands and starts doing more to separate themselves from them.
I do know for a fact they DO NOT reflect the broader GOP community, no more than they reflect the broader conservative community. And I am glad you folks are out there (and support this blog who is a lone voice in the wilderness it seems).
Cheers, AJStrata
I’m saving this post, AJ. I want to point it out to you when you realize that once again this bill doesn’t say what you say it does.
Be my guest Sue. And when these people must show they have squared their debts with the IRS then you can remind me how I have the reading comprehension issues.
LOL!
Can you point me to the portion of the bill that requires them to square their debt with the IRS? IIRC, it is only a portion of their debt they will be required to ‘square’.
And they certainly won’t have to square their debt to any citizen whose identity has been stolen. Quick question. When is document fraud not a crime? When it is committed by a ‘newcomer’. I wonder how many legal citizens sitting in prisons or on probation are wondering how to get their status changed from legal to illegal?
GeorgianKing
“one thing, thought, Mr. Strata, don’t confuse the GOP with these rightwing conservatives”
The Texas GOP Platform/2006
http://www.texasgop.org/site/DocServer/Platform_Updated.pdf?docID=2001
Read page 26 of the platform. It starts out “NO AMNESTY, NO WAY” But then, according to your standards, all Texas GOPers are radical rightwingers.
Oh, I see Sue. Just in case a real criminal slips through you are all for the status quo where they ALL have slipped through…
Brilliant. Wonder why I did not think of that? As I said, perfection will never come out of the Congress so waiting for it before acting is just a lame excuse to support the current broken system.
As I’ve said many times before AJ, I’m NOT against a “guest worker” program, and I’m not against the principal of this bill, which is SUPPOSED to fix our ILLEGALS problems.
My concern, all along, is the snowjob that’s being pulled by Kennedy, and willfully ignorant Republicans, who accept at face value, this Bill, and what it’s SUPPOSED to do, as opposed to the language that people like Kennedy has stuck in the bill, that will Undo all that!
So again, my position is: FIX IT, BEFORE you pass it!
However, even this logical, rational, sane position of mine, is attacked by AJ and his supporters, as too extreme, hard-right, immigration hypochondriac, pass it now regardless of content-type crowd.
So, since I’m already guilty, I might as well point out, MORE problems with the bill, by another expert, that AJ and suporters will immediately attack, and call all the requisite names, etc., etc.
This is about the fifth link like this I’ve posted over the past two weeks, and AJ, and his supporters, have no answer for it, continue to ignore the very real concerns, and continue to name call and ignore!
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1513.cfm
Sue,
So you are saying that proof of paying taxes by way of tax returns without any serious leans is not proof they paid their taxes? There is only one way to prove you paid your taxes – tax returns. LOL! tax returns means the IRS has looked at them and found them to be reasonable. Who else is qualified?
I guess you are one of those who find the process of legislation a bit bewildering in its obvious intent.
AJ, since you seem to have time to peruse polls that agree with you opinion and agenda, perhaps you would not mind posting the text of this bill that shows that illegals will have to a) pay back taxes and b) provide proof of that through tax returns.
I know all us radical racists would appreciate it.
AJ: you’ve also been telling us, for several weeks, that under CURRENT law, there is no way to deport ILLEGALS, Criminals, etc.?
Isn’t that correct?
How does that square with this article, then, please?
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18497417&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=614635&rfi=6
You know what AJ, I keep coming back thinking you aren’t really like Scary, just passionate about this bill. And then you say something that absolutely puts you in the category of the “master of when unable to defend your point attack the poster” Scary himself. When you are down to one or two ‘loyals’ left here, like the preacher lady and someone unpc at Scary’s, echoing what you want to hear, and telling you how you and only you know what is going on in the world, just remember a lot of us held you in high esteem at one time. And clicked your site first thing every morning. Not anymore, AJ. I finally have had enough of you.
Later.
Well, the mayor of NYC has now left the ranks of the RepubliCrats following the move of an increasing number of voters. A growing number are neither Republicans or Democrats and it appears that a growing number of politicians are following suit.
The immigration debate is likely to accelerate that process.
I love the back taxes issues. Why don’t the bill opponents be honest here. I mean we can all read. We all know that the back tax provision is controversial because of the issue if it can be in the Senate bill at all. The reason is the COnst isssue of this raising revenue and therefore cannot be done in the Senate. Last year the leading opponents of the bill threatened to blue slip it on that account. Already the media is saying some people are jumping at the opportunity in the House to blue slip it in the House as to these provisions.
So we have “conservatives” yelling about the back taxes issue while at the same time knowing that by doing this that the whole Senate bill could be killed on a procedural issue. At one point this was Democrat like tactics. We become what we hate as the blogger the Anchoress says
JH
LOuisiana
Crosspatch, I am sure the reference to Bloomberg was to point out your surmized death of the Republican Party. Why did you not point out that Bloomberg switched parties (being a life long DEMOCRAT) in 2001 in order to run for mayor of New York?
Guess that info was not convenient?
So Bloomberg was a DINO, then a RINO, and now, I guess, we can call him a UNO (U for unable to decide what he really is).
No Dale, I said deportation on grounds of having committed a violent crime (not being illegal) was becoming impossible and we needed the fixes in this bill to make easier to be done.
Georgeann:
I try to avoid Hannity at all costs — by radio waves, TV waves and all other waves. But your comments echo what my Mom said. She caught a few minutes of him in the car yesterday and she actually called to tell me how appalled and stunned she was.
Sounds to me like Hannity did a Laura Ingraham on Tony. Yet further evidence why I’ve lost all respect and separated myself from the insane echo chamber.
Has anyone seen Newt’s ad opposing the immigration bill? What’s with the skinny lens angle? A bit of vanity that can be forgiven, but the rest… not so much.
See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WaZgF1rEYU
Sue:
The “loyals” as you call them don’t feel the need to keep coming back here and responding to the same old tired arguments of the “anti-loyals”. There is a reason AJ refers to the rad cons as “immigration hypochondriacs”.
By the way, enough with feeling indignant and insulted because AJ used a little bit of sarcasm at you. WAH WAH WAH. The rad cons spend have their time crying about how people are calling them names and insulting them.
In a debate, sarcasm is an effective tool to get a point across.