May 31 2007
WSJ On Immigration
Watch this from WSJ and see how much damage the far right has done in Immigration. I agree with the WSJ, the Reps are screwed now by losing on the issue and losing the Latino vote. Purity will be achieved and the end of conservative governing majority will the result.
I had completely forgotten about that. I remember that!! Whatever happened to that? Was there an investigation?
Left by apache_ip on May 31st, 2007
Of course not, never! It was the Clintons after all; who’s going to complain? The media?
The Democrats, and as we can see from the idiotic suicidal Republicans these past couple of weeks, you think they’re going to complain, hell it’s a continuing supply of cheap labor!
That’s why the Republicans and the Democrats always clash over the minimum wage!
The Democrats are always pushing to raise the minimum wage, so they can take credit for giving more money to the ILLEGALS, and also induce more ILLEGALS to come north for the higher pay.
The Republicans want to keep it low, so that they can get as many ILLEGALS, as cheaply as possible!
Opposite sides of the same BAD coin…
How much do you want to bet that Ted Kennedy has a follow-on bill waiting in the wings?
If this bill is passed, I bet Ted Kennedy introduces a new bill that will give green card holders and Z Visa holders the right to vote in Federal elections. And once Republicans capitulate on this bill, they wouldn’t dare vote against that bill.
Any takers?
DaleinAtlanta,
My experiences have not been uniformly negative as yours appear to have been – but I’m a 5th generation Californian and my interactions with “Mexicans” have ranged widely, from the Pachuco juvenile delinquents who stole my lunch money, through the bracero and immigrant migrant workers who worked their asses off picking grapes in family vineyards, the student MeChA and LaRaza activists, the assimilated Mexican immigrant professionals and business people, to the upper reaches of the old Californio society. In some ways, “Mexican” is not even a very useful category about which to make generalizations, because it covers huge differences in class, education and ethnicity. It includes people who are hidalgos of the purest Spanish blood with first rate European and American educations, Indians with no education to speak of, and every conceivable combination in between.
The vast majority of the actual illegal immigrants are not malicious and want only opportunity. I think the lack of assimilation comes less from a conscious desire to be “Mexican” rather than American than it does from taking the path of least resistance — learning English is hard enough for anyone, let alone for someone barely literate in his or her native language. If it’s not required, and you’re busy working all day, and not particularly reflective to begin with, you’ll just not event think about it.
Most of all, these immigrants are being exploited. Not so much by ‘evil employers’ but by those who want them to be their powerbase – the LaRaza and MeChA types and the Democrats who see them as voters, and most of all, by Mexico’s oligarchy which uses emigration to the US as a safety valve to avert social upheaval in Mexico itself and to avoid serious reform in that dysfunctional, corrupt, and backward society.
Well, I know for sure Washington State allows dead people to vote(see last governors election) so it wouldn’t surprise me if they allow non-citizens. (
That was a BIG story here. I still can’t believe it happened.
The Democrats lost, but kept doing recounts until they won by the slimmest of margins. And then, they refused to allow another recount.
It was AMAZING how they kept “finding” votes.
That was a travesty of justice if I have ever seen one. On multiple levels.
Terrye, Googing oregon voting i found:
This is a major change for Oregon and many other states. This is, whether you agree with the reasons for it or not, an extra hoop to jump through before a citizen can register to vote. And this is where the effort to add extra hoops to jump through must be stopped. We have to follow federal law and get a driver’s license number or the last four digits of a social security number, but we can’t go farther and make it harder to register and vote.
There are those who disagree with me. Around the nation and here in Oregon, there is a vocal minority that would like to dramatically restrict voting by requiring copies of voter ID or proof of citizenship.
In the past three legislative sessions in Oregon I have fought against attempts to make it harder to vote, including attempts to require identification and proof of citizenship.
How many of you have registered voters? Do you keep a Xerox machine in your pocket? Hmm. Makes getting copies kind of hard, doesn’t it? If ID copies are required, then you simply can’t run a registration drive without a portable copy machine, and that means fewer registration drives and fewer people registered.
What about proof of citizenship? Let me ask, how many of you have your passport or your birth certificate with you today?
It costs between $10 and $45 to get a certified copy of a birth certificate, it costs $20 to get certified naturalization papers, and a passport costs $85. And it can take weeks to get any of these documents.
So how many of you want to pay the indirect poll tax that this documentation would require before voting?
Since we have seen no proof, absolutely no evidence, that non-citizens have been trying to vote in significant numbers, the question posed by documentation requirements is not whether only citizens should vote, but whether only those with extra time and money should vote.
Now this clearly implies you HAVE to be a citizen, they just can’t require you to have proof such as a birth certificat with you when you vote.
Now if you don’t agree that you have to be a citizen to vote in Oregon, please supply a link to evidence otherwise.
Dale –
Of course not, never! It was the Clintons after all; who’s going to complain? The media?
Can you imagine if a Republican had been accused of doing that???
The TV coverage would be non-stop and wall to wall until a full investigation was done!!!
We are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo screwed. I am about to give up hope. I am tired of this constant uphill battle of fighting back the Democrats, the media, and stupid Republicans.
I live here in Oregon. Trust me, if they aren’t voting, it is only because they choose not to.
Dale:
I have read enough of your posts that I do not think you are a racist. I never meant to say that. I am talking about people who say some really nasty things in a very public forum.
When people say that all hispanics are a certain kind of people, well how do you think that sounds? When people talk about the mud churches and stink of beans….well folks sometimes we forget, this is the internet.
I have no problem with keeping bad people out of the country. We have a physical therapist working for our company who is from the Phillipines. He is legal and he says things about America that make me want to boot his ass back to Manilla. But he is legal and he is educated. But we also have another man from Poland working for us and he is a treasure. He really is. He is married and Catholic and has three young children.
So the question of racism has a lot to do with people just not saying stupid stuff that can only be construed one way.
enforcement:
I honest to God do not know what you are talking about with the Oregon thing. Really.
BTW, I read the bill. I kept looking for the part where the US Senate cedes the American southwest to Mexico and forces us all to speak Spanish but I could not find it.
Room for improvement, but I don’t feel like sitting myself on fire either.
I do mean what I said, from this point forward the issue belongs to the guys who insist on calling all the shots. The guys with the facts. The rest of us are just along for the ride.
Most of all, these immigrants are being exploited. Not so much by ‘evil employers’ but by those who want them to be their powerbase – the LaRaza and MeChA types and the Democrats who see them as voters, and most of all, by Mexico’s oligarchy which uses emigration to the US as a safety valve to avert social upheaval in Mexico itself and to avoid serious reform in that dysfunctional, corrupt, and backward society.
Left by CatoRenasci on May 31st, 2007
Cato: you are very smart, very reasoned, and I like the way you write and think!
You’re new here, and thus I think, at this point, throwing more “Light” than “heat” on the discussion!
That’s good, I think we need a thoughtful “bridge” between the two sides!
That said, the part of your post I quoted above, is way more erudite than anything I’ve managed to say on the subject; well done!
Terrye, why did you feel the need to state the religion of the person from Poland but not the person from the Phillipines? Was your argument that a white, Christian person is more likely to be pro-American than a person from the Phillipines who could be Muslim?
Terrye: no, you’ve never called me a “racist”, and I didn’t mean to imply that; I took your posts to mean some people “generally”, not me specifically.
I’m surprised about that story about the Filipino talking bad about America, that’s not normal for them; my wife would kick his ass if she heard him say something like that!
“When people talk about the mud churches and stink of beans….”
Well I’ve never said that anywhere, and don’t believe it (and I’m not saying you said that I said it, I’m just making a point…); but I know some people do say it.
Frankly, between you and me, I LOVE Mexican food, hell, I LOVE all food; I was happy as hell when Penn State brought it’s FIRST “Mexican Restaurant” in; 1982, and it was a TACO BELL! No kidding!
Anyway, I don’t care if they’re green, and come from Mars; if they want to be here, and come LEGALLY, and they want to assimilate, or at least contribute, fine!
If they’re here because they hate us, and want to take back the SW for Mexico, or implement Sharia, they can go home!
That pretty much sums up how I feel, I don’t know how to explain it anymore clearly!
Terrye,you said non citizens could vote in Oregon, I posted from google info that implies you have to be a citizen in oregon.
I honest to God do not know what you are talking about with the Oregon thing. Really.
FE,
I live in Oregon. Trust me, non-citizens can, and do, vote here. Our Governor, Ted “Tax and Gouge Me” Kolongowski (aka Sleepy Ted) has structured the system so that they can.
If you look at the article you quoted, you will find this –
Around the nation and here in Oregon, there is a vocal minority that would like to dramatically restrict voting by requiring copies of voter ID or proof of citizenship.
We don’t require any proof of citizenship at all when you register to vote. Once you register, the send you a ballot in the mail. You fill in the ballot and mail it back.
It is a horrible system. Not only are the illegal immigrants voting, but we have bad voter fraud. Stuff like 20+ ballots going to the same 2 bedroom apartment.
I don’t know about other states. I can only speak to Oregon. But haven’t other States been fighting any movement to demand proof of citizenship during voting? I thought I saw that on the news.
If you don’t demand proof of citizenship when people vote, how do you stop non-citizens from voting?
Okay Terrye, this seems a little suspicious to me. You wrote, BTW, I read the bill. up above.
If I remember correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t you admit last night that you had NOT read the bill. And shortly after admitting that, you wrote that you were going to bed because you had to work in the morning.
When did you read that 326 page monster? This morning, while working?
It took me three full days to get through it. I may be a little slow, but I don’t see how anyone could read that monster in one morning.
The guys with the facts. The rest of us are just along for the ride.
Some of us having been posting facts. Some of us are actually quoting the bill. I have even quoted and given links to existing law. Please don’t count me in your “along for the ride” group. You want to talk about everything EXCEPT what is in the bill.
Well, well, well; isn’t life funny sometimes?
Check out this link, to illustrate what Bikerken and I have been talking about! Down with the ugly Americans
Your link doesn’t work Dale. Can you try it again please
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/188117.php
Closed one of those
Perhaps George Bush should study Sam Houston and not Sam Rayburn.
Remember San Jacinto.