Apr 05 2007
Purity Or Reigns Of Power?
Far right (or hard right) Republicans/Conservatives have a decision to make: either purity or Power. The early party donation numbers are in and one thing is clear – the moderates are leading on the right and the far right is not doing much more than complain about purity. It would seem the far right is not in this fight yet (or else there would be more money going to the more conservative candidates).
Listening to the yacking heads moan about Guiliani’s abortion comments today was a classic example of tearing down our possible candidates when it is not needed. My biggest problem with Guiliani’s comments is tax payer funded abortions. But I would rather get him to accept the broader conservative position on tax payer funded abortions than be stuck with an Obamillary in the White House. Guiliani seems prepared let the USSC determine the matter – which is the best anyone can hope for to get Roe v Wade overturned. But many of us are not ready to make abortions illegal. The decision is wrong, but the decision can be a tough one. I am with Rudy in that I would prefer to spend energy getting adoption support and counseling support going that fighting the illegality battle. The law will not move until the culture changes. But instead of planning to help adjust Guiliani’s one outliar issue the right is attacking. Well there is only two paths.
Purity or the Power to change things? We less strident conservatives (like myself who have unequivocal support for Bush II and Reagan) support the general conservative approach. But we are not signing up for any hard right turns. The immigration issue is another where the far/hard right is way out of step with the country. And as long as the far right will not compromise and look long term and accept steps towards the full promise of conservative thought then they will be going nowhere. This mess started when the far right had a fit over Harriet Miers and would not even let the women express her views. Since that moment, when the far/hard right took off into the weeds the Bush Presidency and the War started going down hill. Sensing the schism – as many of us did – the Dems went all out and gave al Qaeda hope. Hope that a Pelosi would come and save them from annihilation. And it worked.
Bush is infinitely better than Gore and Kerry and that my friends were the options. And right now the possible options are Guiliani, Romney and Thompson. The far/hard right dissed the moderates to the point there is no sense in an alliance until there is respect and debate and compromise in the Conservative/Republican base. If that is too much, then we will have an Obamillary leading this country. The center is always open to discuss reasonable paths forward. The far/hard right has been less and less willing and more and more angry. Unless they change their approach, it will continue on that trajectory and the new alignment may solidify in place. There can not be a pure thinking, governing majority in a democracy
sm:
No, it did not begin on Bush’s watch and maybe some people need to stop and ask themselves why it is if this is so important to so many people, why weren’t we hearing more about say….a decade or so ago?
I’ve noticed that whenever this discussion comes up, my posts start getting lost.
SMH10, Is that the “Civil discussion” you were talking about. The fact is that the majority of the right, not the “hard right”, and a heck of a lot of the left, is against this idiotic policy and has been for a long time. Do you seriously believe we can bring in one hundred million people in for a “guest worker program” with very little screening, and not drastically change the economics and culure of our country? That’s what I’m talking about. By the way, that one hundred million figure is the first I have heard on this new bill. Details seem to be hard to come by. You people are talking about playing russion roulette and then fixing it if it don’t work out later.
I know I’m not going to convince any of you to change your mind, but I want to give you something to think about. So far as I can see, the only way that we would qualify as being “flexible” or “compromising” is to just shut up and give Ted Kennedy whatever he wants. Personally, I think that man hates this country as much as anyone ever has. It looks to me like your side is the side that does not wish to talk or compromise.
Bikerken:
That is not fair. I never said anything about giving Ted Kennedy what he wants.
This is exactly what pisses me off. You are giving me two choices: you or Ted Kennedy, why should I be forced to choose either.
And btw, I happen to think that Ted Kennedy likes this kind of discussion, because in the end it works for him. Way to go.
Terrye, you can say what you want. I’ll tell you right now that if this immigration bill goes through, and I am becoming less convinced that it will, there will be a backlash in the 08 election and it will not be good for republicans who voted for it. That is what will hurt the party.
Bikerken:
Ever heard of Mickey Kaus? The blogger, real hard ass when tit comes to immigration issues. He is also a Democrat. I think that there are people out there like that jerking your chain. Hoping and praying for a backlash. It is a win win for them. Republicans do not deal with this and pass something, Democrats will say they can’t get things done, use it as an issue and pass something themselves even more obnoxious. But if Republicans do pass something, hardliners will accuse them of treason and do their best to create a backlash and the Democrat win.
I am not a fan of Ted Kennedy’s and I know conservatives did not like the No Child Left Behind Act, but test scores are up for kids and results do mean something even if you have to deal with people you don’t like to get them.
There was a lot of room for improvement in that bill, but when the Republicans had the majority they refused to even try to improve it, they just said they would not deal with it at all. They blew it off and then they lost and now the issue is still there, but they don’t have a majority anymore.
What will hurt the party is people demanding the impossible and then pitching a tantrum when they don’t get it. The Democrats can play this game all day and never lose, the Republicans just refuse to get out of their own damn way.
BTW, if this is what you say it is, why isn’t Tancredo doing better? And if Thompson gets in there and you find out he can’t wave a magic wand and make this thing happen like you want, will you turn on him too?
Bikerken:
It seems as though Terrye and I are agreeing with you that illegal immigration is a problem in this country, and speaking for myself you would never get an arguement where Ted Kennedy is concerned.
As far as posts disappearing, that has nothing to do with the other commentors on this site.
I do not know what side you think I am on but I believe I am on the side of the country in which I grew up, raised my children and am now enjoying my grandchildren. I like to think I am on the side of those who can be open enough to realize that no 2 people let alone thousands will ever think completely alike on any given issue. I like to believe I am on the side that recognizes that hard problems are never solved by sweeping them under the rug or screaming at or demeaning one another but by meaningful dialogue. No one has called you uncompromising that I can see and no one has said your beliefs are not to be your own. Facts may be disputed and challenged but that is the American way.
And as for “playing russian roulette and fixing it if it don’t work out later”, well maybe my many years on this earth have taught me that many things we face in life are exactly that. Yes, immigration is a very important issue..english as the first language in this country is equally so, but others may have issues they deem even more so.
And no, compromise does not mean to shut-up..we cannot learn from one another if we take that route.
Terrye:
Sorry to have included your name in that last comment..my fingers got going before my brain was thinking. I should have asked first.
M y ex was third generation Dutch, his parents were from Cincinnatti, German town and even though they were born here they were in gradeschool before they spoke English on a daily basis. But they did learn of course and every one should. But for many years, the first language in Lousiana was French and people lived their lives in parts of Chicago or NYC speaking Italian. The idea that everyone came here and immediately learned English is not true. It took generations for some people to adapt, but they did.
Bikerken,
You and the hard right have not given ANYTHING on this issue – so stop acting like you are being put out. Your not dealing with Kennedy – you are dealing with us fellow conservatives. And the backlash is here. We are sick of the “my way or the highway” attitudes. You are ON the highway to nowhere. If you are not interested in discussing compromise on the Guest Worker program (and that doesn’t mean delay) then forget it! Hillary wins.
I continue failing to see how it will benefit anyone to have a hillary or an obama in the white house. They will address illegal immigration, how? AMNESTY! And that it is the TRUE definition of amnesty.
Please. This is ridiculous. And will hold every single person responsible who causes hillary or obama to get elected by demanding their way. And I will wish that one million pelosi’s are in their faces every day of their lives.