Jan 28 2007
Science Fiction In Litvinenko Case
This is just a summary of some discussions I have seen in response to the Tea Pot news that came out last week and continues to roil the Litvinenko story today. What has been an eye opener for me is how little people generally understand the chemistry and physics of nuclear materials and their “poisoning” abilities. That is not meant as a slam on anyone, it is just a reminder to me how diverse people are and how they are very,very different from my own life experience. We spend so much time looking for common ground we sometimes forget to see the gaps that make us unique.
Here is a classic example of the current reporting and how, if it is accurate, it also must be completely impossible in reality.
A POT full of radioactive tea was used to poison former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, police revealed yesterday.
The “hot” teapot was found at London’s Millennium Hotel with sky-high readings of Polonium-210 – the deadly radioactive material used to murder the former KGB man.
And despite a huge police investigation, the teapot wasn’t found so it was STILL IN USE at the posh hotel in Mayfair until December 10 – six weeks after the poisoning. Even then it had “off the chart” radioactivity readings.
The problem here is a general one of all liquids – they do not change their content when moved from one container to another. So the ‘hot’ pot has to be aligned with the dead Litvinenko.
A dissolved solution (‘dissolved’ being a key assumption of an assassination, in order to esure the attack was never uncovered) has the same properties and contents from pot to cup (or bowl) to mouth. Even if we assume there was some solid material left behind at the bottom of the liquid in the tea pot, it has to be within a certain range consistent with what Litvinenko ingested.
Let’s use chicken soup as an example, and we will flavor it with some salt (the form Po-210 would be in for dissolving in an acid based liquid). If we put salt in our pot of soup the entire pot has about the same amount through out since it dissolves throughout the liquid. No matter where it ends up it is a dosage of so many grams per volume of liquid. What you will NOT see is a gently salted solution (100ths of a gram per ounce) in a cup that came from a pot that is loaded with a pound of salt. This is the problem when ‘orders of magnitude’ differences appear to be showing up between Litvinenko’s dosage and the signature of Po-210 the tea pot and tea cup.
I believe those criminally involved in this event are just like most people and don’t have a good grasp of the physics and chemistry – which is not a negative statement on anyone. But it may have led them to make a critical blunder. Since I do not have access to the actual levels found, my assessments are based on speculation from reporting. But when dealing with orders of magnitude (1, 10, 100, 1000) then speculation within some reasonable boundaries can be relatively safe.
Remember: the tea cup was mentioned by Litvinenko’s supporters BEFORE he died. This was a time when it was clear Litvinenko would not survive and an autopsy was unavoidable (as would then be the discovery of the Po-210, because any radiation death will be investigated until solved). Now this tea cup detail could be a simple recollection on events, or it could be the beginning of the diversion campaign. Which coincided with Berezovsky’s PR campaign.
What is important is that there is no way to know when the tea pot or cup where contaminated. The radioactive decay rate is tied to when the material was produced. Now, if there is a difference in the decay signature in the Po-210 in the pot and Litvinenko then clealry the tea pot has nothing to do with his death. But if the Po-210 is from the same production run, then it will show the same decay rate no matter when it was deposited. Decay rate will not help determine when the Po-210 was deposited.
A key question for me is whether the tea pot was part of the original story from Litvinenko’s police statement. Or was it a detail added weeks later which is why the police missed it? These are important details because the cup, pot and Litvinenko may have come into contact with different amounts of Po-210, which makes it impossible for their contact to be the Po-210 spiked tea. The liquid would have a fixed amount of Po-210 dissolved, so the doses it applied to the pot, cup and victim MUST be consistent to some level.
There is one scenarion where the Tea Pot could stand out – a bit. It is where the Pot was contaminated originally and some of the Po-210 sunk to the bottom. Then a small gradient of difference would be seen between pot and cup. But the cup and Litvinenko would still need to see a consistent dosage between the two, and they do not. The cup was always seen as being possibly ‘hotter’ with Po-10 than Litvinenko because it was the vessel in which the PO-210 was administered. But now with a Pot as the point of Po-210 injection, the tea cup cannot be drastically different from Litvenenko’s dose. Since it has been reported to be hot enough to stand out from all other cups, this is now the case.
But the difference between cup and pot cannot be a huge difference as well. It has to be a reasonable change, all due to solid material left in the pot. Just like my example of how a pound of salt in pot will not show a modest flavoring in the cup, chemistry dictates these differences are bounded to some level.
We shall see whether I am right (again) or not, because the tea pot is so hot, sadly, it must have contaminated others while it was in use at the hotel over the 6 weeks from Litvinenko’s poisoning to its discovery.
Health officials are bracing themselves for hundreds of calls from guests who may have been served tea at the Millennium, though last night the Health Protection Agency tried to downplay the blunder, saying there was no risk to public health.
I doubt the police missed something this ‘hot’. But those who came into contact with it will be the key to determinig when the tea pot was contaminated. The pot will poison others, and it will be consistent amounts as time progresses. From the day the pot is contaminated the amount of Po-210 sticking to the surface will drop off with every wash and as the material decays. It will deposit a certain amount of poison per volume of liquid each time it was used, and therefore the people contaminated will show a declining exposure (while accounting for the volume ingested) as time progresses from the initial contamination. Working backwards from the trail of people poisoned will determine when the pot became ‘hot’..
If I am correct and this is a plant, then people will be showing up very sick soon, or not at all! And this last point is important.
If this was a plant, but not intended or wanted to expose more people to avoid further attention, then no one may be contaminated. If the police were tipped off in a manner that the Po-210 was not exposed to the public for long few if anyone would be sick from the tea pot. For it to really be tied to Litvinenko’s poisoning on November 1 we should see many more critically sick people. This is because to be linked, it would have had to be used for 6 weeks and exposed many others.
AJ, I also enjoy some of the speculation, but there are many unknowns that could lead to 1000 different scenarios. Too bad the authorities in the UK aren’t releasing more info.
But the teapot to cup to Sasha theory based upon the densities of dissolved Po-210 is valid if all the Po says dissolved. What about just in suspension, and sinking very quickly after stirring the tea in the pot, and then additional sinking in the cup as Sasha lets it cool or sit between sips.
I seem to remember Crosspatch talking several weeks back about the details of Po-210, but I couldn’t find a search function to find it.
Thank you Sammy!
All I am saying is that my hypothesis seems consistent with the known facts. AJ is assuming that the solution in the pot–“zavarka”– went into the cup unadulterated. A Russian making tea would have diluted this concentration with boiling water–“kipyatok.”
I am just saying that if a Russian made this tea (as reported by The Times) then he would probably make it the Russian way –by pouring a small amount of tea concentrate–“zavarka”– into a cup and adding boiling water–kipyatok– from a kettle–and the concentration of polonium in the teacup would be much more dilute than the concentration of polonium in the teapot.
Then you have other factors such as how the cup and teapot wash.
A teapot might just be rinsed out–not washed in a dishwasher. All sorts of possibilities.
Interestingly , Gordievsky claims that the water in the kettle was not boiling properly but that the polonium heated it up.
This may just be speculation, but the Russian-style tea making is a clear possibility. They were Russian, after all.
How many assumptions can you pile on assumptions? How many “in my opinions” or “seems to me’s” – especially given the “we don’t knows”.
This is perhaps a fun exercise – but it has about the same scientific validity as creation science
Actually, very early on, AJ and others said “the cup and the pot,” could have been added LATER. The crime scene was ADULTERATED!
Adulterated means there was access after the fact. And, junk got PLANTED.
Notice, how AJ talked of the PLANT and the teapot.
Plant. Ain’t an ivy cover, either.
As to getting Litvinenko to SIP the tea? That’s where you run into problems. Litvinenko was TRAINED to be a KGB agent.
Do you know anything about this type of training?
Do you know, for instance, that detectives know not to go inside a restaurant and take a seat with their backs to the door?
Do you know, for instance, that people who are trained by the MOSSAD, are trained to follow someone in a crowded street? And, often enough the young trainees “lose their professor?” Because the professors KNOWS the eyes are on him! Yet he can manage to slip into a department store, don a beret, and exit again. And, watch students standing around in awe. Later to report “they lost him.”
So, if agents are well trained enough, they’d KNOW not to sip tea if everybody else was looking at the ceiling.
As a matter of fact, Scaramella’s name fell out as the “first suspect,” because he went to lunch with Litvinenko, at the sushi place. And, refused to eat raw fish. (At the time? Litvinenko probably laughed at his guest. And, yes. Saw Scaramella only ordering bottled water.) AND, THAT WAS ENOUGH!
Scaramella, and the sushi place, were blamed at first at being the “source of the poisoning.” Must have given the restaurant owner frightful nights. But it turns out, human nature being what it is, the sushi bar saw a RISE in customers.
You could read from that, that people are curious. And, they “go in” the same way Sherlock Holmes would go in. To have a look around.
Yes. If only Scaramella had eating some sushi he wouldn’t have ever had a finger pointed at him as the “killer.”
Later on, because killers are in short supply, the tea cup is planted. With total disregard to the safety of the hotel staff. (And, then it also turns out this russian stuff is so “hot” it’s ejecting alpha particles long after a “mushroom cloud” would have finished being dangerous.)
I do notice no BOMBS went off in London! Heck, I noticed that about Chernobyl.
And, sometimes? I noticed in my cardiologist’s office, that isotopes are used, now, to substitute for ordinary (horrible) treadmill stress tests. (I still opt for the old fashioned treadmilll, though. And, complain loudly while I’m on it. Before I just go to begging for the test to end.)
But isotopes? Used in doctor’s settings. Used in hospitals. And, if you look up at the walls, sometimes you see the bio-hazard black and yellow signs. That’s just how it is.
While the other thing you pretty much know? There wasn’t police tape surrounding the doorways of these various hotel rooms! People kept coming in. And, going out.
While one of the planes that flew the route? Out of service. STILL HOT!
But go ahead. Believe what you want. Your insults, however, go nowhere with most folk. I’m not looking to change anyone’s mind.
As to “being russian?” London’s loaded with this crap. Israel’s got about 3-million. And, a few million settled in Brighton Beach. In Brooklyn. It could mean, given the black marketeering that goes on out’da russia; that plenty of communities could grow HOT over time.
By the way, in hospital settings. When isotopes are “schtupt” into patients, in attempts to shrink cancer tumors. There’s nursing staff that MUST go in and attend to these patients. And, sometimes, they’ll take pills. No. I don’t know what the pills do. But there’s a safety factor involved in swallowing them.
Also, when it comes to radiation poisoning, all is not known. What happens to DNA, for instance, is not known.
But that imam, in “that” mosque! He sure had a strange reaction to “that” casket. (Did Litvinenko’s dad hope that somehow that, too, would become a clue?)
Besides, if nothing else happens in this case, now. The russians just “doing business” out in the open isn’t happening unobserved. (And, I’m just talking by regular people! Not the spooks that dot all the landscapes, where collecting “information” is big business in lots of countries. Who supply the system with “soldiers.” But don’t expect to recognize them.)
All agencies train their staffs well. (Which is one clue you have to why Plame WASN’T COVERT. Because she WORKED at Langley. Walking through the front doors! No spook ever turns up at the CIA that way, as long as they are under cover.)
Gordievsky is a liar! What’s it gonna take folks to notice how he’s shilling the propaganda line? Are you a fish? Are you biting the hook?
Snapple, thanks for the Russian tea link… I ‘m going to try it that way, seems like a much easier way to have tea throughout the day.
About AJ’s physics/science… I’d, er, take it with a grain of salt.
Snapple, don’t know if you saw this, but as I said on another thread, the HPA Conference on March 27th in London detailing their response to the polonium scare will probably fill in a huge number of details and variables that hardly any of us can possibly know at this point.
http://www.hpa-events.org.uk/hpa/templates/sub/thome.csp?pageID=6887
My theory on this conference is that British officials, knowing they will not be able to prosecute a legal case because the Russian Constitution specifically forbids extradition of its citizens under any circumstances, are going to take this case to the court of public opinion.
In doing that, they will most likely address this case on various levels and in different venues, like the one above. They are aware that every detail will be brought under the glare of world scrutiny. So we will all — each bringing a different level of interest and expertise from a multiplicity of backgrounds — have opportunity to examine, hold up to the light and kick the tires of every, single detail of evidence made public. Many governments will be sending teams in to examine this. We all have a vested interest in knowing about the smuggling of radioactive materials across European borders, for what reason, and who was responsible.
So, don’t fret. And don’t get so upset at AJStrata. A modicum of Internet notoriety because of a contrarian position went to his head. Something clearly set his spin cycle into hyperdrive because he clearly lost any objectivity on this a long time ago.
I agree with Soothsayer. We cannot view much in this case as actual fact or as evidence yet because, so far, nearly everything we can discuss about it is from leaks to the press. We all know press reports are often notoriously wrong, and the details in this case are very complicated so even more likely to be misconstrued. Beginning with that as the base of an argument starts anyone on faulty and questionable. So the very best any of us can do is speculate. Saying that is not meant to insult anyone. It’s just reality.
So think about it, Snapple: arguing endlessly here with AJStrata just promotes his blog and helps to spread his view, sort of like the way the 1918 flu spread. Is your argument really worth that?
Snapple, I would like to read more about Russian tea (zavarka/kipyatok). Specifically, would the zavarka ever be carried around as a liquid concentrate that is poured into the tea pot? Would you please write about this for a page or so on your blog? Thanks.
See ya in another part of the Internet. Take care, y’all!
Oops, meant to say:
Beginning with that as the base of an argument starts anyone on faulty and questionable LOGIC.
Left out that word.
Carol-
You better call the CIA and the Justice Department – because THEY THINK Plame was covert.
The Central Intelligence Agency, an agency of the Federal government that reports to the President, filed the criminal complaint with the Justice Department triggering the investigation. Were they UNAWARE she was not covert – or were they LYING?
In the official press release of October 28, 2005, speaking on behalf of the government of the United States, and as an officer of the court, Patrick Fitzgerald stated: “Prior to July 14, 2004, Valerie Plame’s employment status was classified.†She was working NOC – “non-official cover†– which means that she was not protected by diplomatic immunity when traveling outside of the United States. Keep in mind, when a United States attorney makes a declaration, the government is legally bound by it unless it demurs. There has been no demurral from the government with respect to Fitzgerald’s representations.
You better let them know before they waste any more money on the investigation.
Mariposa–
I can make a little post.
Certainly a person could carry around the strong brew–zavarka– in a thermos and add boiling watcr to it if you wanted to poison someone.
It just might not taste as fresh, I suppose. And you might spill it because you would be nervous. I think Russians usually make the zavarka fresh. And boiling water is important–not just the temperature. It has to be bubbling.
I was just making the point that the Russian tea-making method of diluting the zavarka with boiling water in the teacup might account for the different levels of radioactivity on the cup and teapot.
Right, Snapple.
Any serious tea drinker wants loose leaves and boiling water – they want the tea leaves to move around in the bubbling water.
Soothsayer, go ahead. It’s a free country! Think what you want!
But Fitzy’s got a problem. He can’t even show the jury the original indictment. (Because Libby isn’t indicted for leaking Plame’s name.)
And, the original “game?” Cooked up to take Bush out of the White House. Instead, he got re-elected. Kerry did not.
And, before the whole mishigas came spilling out of wilson; wilson worked for Kerry. Even funnier. Burkett kept twisting mary mapes’ arm, before he handed over “Lucy Ramirez’s paperwork,” also asking for a job with the Kerry campaign.
As to our CIA? Up ahead E. Howard Hunt, (though he just died at age 88), did get to his publishers on time. And, his book comes out in May. Where he “divulges” that LBJ knew ahead of time, that kennedy would be killed in Dallas.)
And, if you’r assuming Fitzgerald has a “slam dunk,” it would surprise me! Sure. Judge Walton holds enough rope to lynch a Jew. But if he does that? All he’ll do is wring the neck of affirmative action. Another thing that lays on the tracks at the end of the dead end street.
As to the jurors? Worst case scenario is that it comes back “hung.”
Hung’s an interesting word, too. Like “plant.” Hung can mean a man has a penis that is so long, he can simply put his cup of tea by his ankles, and shake. To stir.
The media, meanwhile, has not been onto any story with any relevance, since kennedy got shot. And, the government? In order to stop Mort Sahl from going on stage, and just reading out loud, portions that were in the warren commission report; had the Hungry I in San Francisco visited by the IRS. And, if the “act” didn’t stop? The Hungry I was in for an audit.
Well, once upon a time, government officials from state, to the pentagon, to the IRS, would snap to when the president walked in to make a request. These days? Bush has fired a few chumps. Most famously that tenet fella, who said to the president’s face “slam dunk.”
Slam dunks are no longer usable keys.
And, Soothsayer, in spite of your knowledge about tea drinkers, Litvinenko would not have sipped from the cup, if he was the only man in the room, drinking. That’s just the way it is among spooks. And, kings. Where kings were known to use food-tasters, first. To avoid being poisoned. Of course.
Why do people overlook how Scaramella’s name got flushed out as the original “killa?” … All because like many people, swallowing raw fish didn’t seem like much of a delicacy.
You can make fun, here. But Italians generally know good food, from raw fish. And, they’re also very willing candidates to sit in cafes, where good bread, and Chianti are served. Oh, yes. And, spaghetti. Which could be covered with a sauce containing tomatoes. Or not.
Scaramella was NOT invited to “take a bite” in a restaurant where he was willing to eat! Press had no problems, though, trying to convict him out of hand. But they’re no longer chasing that turkey.
While Turki, an ambassador from Saudi Arabia, with diplomatic immunity, leaves DC by boot kick. Sans diplomatic-pants-dancing. Laugh. Say it’s irrelevant. But I say the HOUSE OF SAUD buys real crap if it can be shown to them it is designed to kill plenty of Americans. Or just about 3. Sitting up close to the President. While he gives his SOTU speech.
Whatever bad stuff was being purchased, you might want to notice, it’s one of the criminals that got done in. One of the criminals who didn’t know shit from shinola when it came to being poisoned through radiation.
The scientifc stuff, here, is elucidating. It ADDS to the mystery. It doesn’t subtract.
Everyone is getting all upset for nothing. This is all theory. We do not have all the facts and can only work with what we are told by the media which as everyone knows is far from true in most instances.
The fact remains that for the pot to be as hot as reported and the tea was made the Russian way Litvinenko would have gotten a tiny bit of concentrate and therfore have a very weak cup of tea. However, as a poster noted, the Millenium would not give the Russians that much tea to make a concentrate. Besides which, Litvinenko would notice no one else in the room was drinking the tea. The tea, the cup and the pot are red herrings put out by the Bereszovsky PR machine and probably planted by the same people. All the information about these things are coming from the media which is in bed with Bereszovsky who is one of them. All this stuff came out after Litvinenko was dead not before. Remember he was purported to have written a long letter accusing Putin when he was on a ventilator and in all liklihood could not even speak much less write.
I realize that the liberals on this site as everywhere else have a “special ” thought process that can turn black into white after some contorsions to force the facts fit their theory. In the teeth of all the facts we have been told they still stick to their original theories and never, never let facts get in the way of their opinions. What they don’t realize is is that it is not important who killed Litvinenko but what if the smuggling theory is true. Where did all this polonium come from and where did it go? They dismiss it out of hand as impossible in spite of the fact that smuggling radioactive materials have been going on for decades.
They dismiss out of hand the fact that there is too much polonium involved to be a simple assassination. Occam’s Razor theory is to take ALL the facts into consideration and choose the simplest one of two theories to bear out all the facts. All the polonium tracked all over London, Hamburg and Moscow do not bear out the assassination theory. The huge amount spilled in the room at the Millenium does not either. The use of polonium in the first place does not bear out the theory of assassination. Litvinenko did not die for three weeks and had more than one dose of polonium in him and could have shot off his mouth a thousand times if there was a reason for a hit on him. As we have said again and again one bullet would have done the trick instantly and not caused all this hoopla if this were an assassination theory. And the cost of the polonium would have made this use of assassination prohibitive. The Russians could have sold this polonium for millions to various companies in the US alone. The Russians need money desperately. And whatever happened to the asian looking guy who traveled to London with Kovtun on Nov
1 and was purported to be in the room where the polonium was spilled? The London authorities are accusing Lugovoi of the assassination.
The trick is to not let the media hype get in the way of the facts. If Lugovoi was contracted to kill Litvinenko he sure took his own sweet time doing so. Multiple trips to London incrominating himself on each trip. I thought assassins kept a lower profile than this. And as I said before the asian looking guy is probably a courier in the smuggling group.
“for the pot to be as hot as reported …Litvinenko would have gotten a … very weak cup of tea”
If only you had some of the facts, you would be able to make a sensible comment; instead of a completely unfounded one.
Let me help you with your rhetorical questions.
“Where did all this polonium come from”
i don’t know, but wherever, they had a nuclear reactor. Normally governments keep a close watch on nuclear reactors.
“there is too much polonium involved to be a simple assassination”
how do you work that out ? you don’t have a clue how much was involved, and even if you did, why should an excess preclude an assassination ?
” All the polonium tracked all over London, Hamburg and Moscow do not bear out the assassination theory”
why ? other than your divine word ? It makes a lot of sense to me that L&K had the compound early, and managed to contaminate themselves before dosing Litvinenko.
“The use of polonium in the first place does not bear out the theory of assassination.”
I have news for you; someone assassinated Litvinenko with Po-210.
“the cost of the polonium would have made this use of assassination prohibitive. The Russians could have sold this polonium for millions ”
There is no market for Po on this scale. The process of making this amount takes a fairly short period of time at a nuclear reactor, and is standard methodology.
per
AJ, Snapple & Soothsayer –
You’re all right. Given the Russian way of making tea, the concentration in the pot could have been as much as 10 times that in the cup, but we’re talking one order of magnitude when something like 4 orders of magnitude difference would be needed to etch the pot (10 vs. 10,000). There may be other explanations for high concentrations. Someone upthread suggested that perhaps the teapot was used as the means of divvying up the contraband in the smuggling operation, rather than socializing over tea. That could account for higher concentrations, as could adding the polonium in or out of solution to the pot before any water was added. Evaporation after the fact could also cause a thin film of dried polonium to be deposited if the pot and/or cup were left for a long time.
Most hypotheses seem to assume that teapots and cups are available in the rooms so that guests can make their own tea. AJ’s hypothesis depends on this, too, since the cup is the collection vessel for the spilled polonium powder or metal. I think this is probably a good assumption, but one that could be checked.
Speaking of assumptions, we just have to speculate, because this is an interesting mystery and Scotland Yard just isn’t going to give us all the facts it has, meager though they be. They know the form of the polonium in the room, for example.
I am a chemical engineer by training and I find AJ’s logic compelling in regard to concentrations. I am leaning heavily toward the smuggling theory or maybe the FSB stepping into the smuggling ring and poisoning the smugglers with the contraband. However, I remain open to all sides – and find the discussion fascinating. Just keep it civil.
Mariposa, according to this site, Russians do let this concentrated brew, the zavarka, sit around for a long time–so it might be carried around in a thermos for a day or so. The Russian tea doesn’t get bitter when it sits in the pot a long time.
http://www.russianlife.net/article.cfm?Number=195
A small pot, such as the one seen atop many samovars, is used to produce zavarka. This is the dark, concentrated brew. A considerable quantity of tea leaves are placed in this small pot along with boiling water. The minimum brewing time is 5 minutes with zavarka being used throughout the day and even the following morning for breakfast. When someone wants a cup, a small amount of zavarka is poured into their cup with a greater quantity of hot water to dilute the brew.
The type of tea used is important. If you used English tea for this procedure, it would become quite bitter if left to stand for several hours. A dark loose tea from India, or a Chinese black tea such as Keemun, coupled with a natural herbal or fruited tea is my favorite. Another favorite is Russian Caravan. This is a blend of Indian black teas with a slightly smoky flavor.
“They dismiss out of hand the fact that there is too much polonium involved to be a simple assassination. Occam’s Razor theory is to take ALL the facts into consideration and choose the simplest one of two theories to bear out all the facts. All the polonium tracked all over London, Hamburg and Moscow do not bear out the assassination theory. The huge amount spilled in the room at the Millenium does not either. The use of polonium in the first place does not bear out the theory of assassination.”
Well-put Barbara, thank you. I would add that some people–liberals, mostly–refuse to look at reality. It is obvious that a straightforward assassination, while not impossible, is unlikely in the extreme. This is silly, and dangerous.
Without this sort of thinking there would be no war on terror, that war would have been over two years ago, and the good guys would have won.
“The use of polonium in the first place does not bear out the theory of assassination.â€
I have news for you; someone assassinated Litvinenko with Po-210.
I have news for you, Per, your “news” is total conjecture, no different than if we find a body in a lake and want to know if the drowning were accidental or intentional.
PO is extremely dangerous and lethal at doses I could not have imagined before this case came to light. This fact alone makes an accidental death more likely than an assassination–but forget about that for the time being. There is no way of knowing whether L’s death was accidental or homocidal based on the evidence, and your leap of faith that it was absolutely a homocide is insane.
Ok Snapple, you’re right, Litvinenko carted around a portable Russian tea factory with him. It was clearly a homocide.
well jforrik
4 orders of magnitude difference would be needed to etch the pot (10 vs. 10,000). “
since you are a chemical engineer, perhaps you can point us to a scholarly article that tells us what concentration of Po salts at which pH leave how much contamination in tea pots ? Maybe you could then relate that to the concentration in the Litvinenko poisoning- which you don’t know.
Alternatively, maybe like AJ, you could admit you don’t know.
per
Mariposa,
I did a bit of research on the concentrated tea brew–Zavarka–and it turns out that Russians DO hold it over for a day or so. This could mean the polonium was in the pot for a long time and could have damaged the pot.
I suppose it could have even been carried around a room and spilled or even carried off in a thermos. I think the killers tried to kill Litvinenko more than once at a few locations. Tea often spills out of teapots, right?
People should not think the KGB are all so smart. They can be bumblers and morons sometimes. [Remember all those stories about the CIA trying to kill Castro?]
In fact, Russians call people who don’t know what they are doing and have a propensity for messing up “Chainiks”–teapots!
The Russians have the Dummies series books, but they are called
“Computers for Chainiks, ” etc.