Dec 08 2006
Radiation Shows Up In Hamburg, Germany
OK, one more piece in the puzzle as radiation has been detected in the Hamburg apartment of Dmitry Kuvton:
German police say they have found indications of radiation in an apartment apparently used by a contact of fatally poisoned former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko.
The traces of radiation turned up in the northern city of Hamburg in the apartment used by Dmitry Kovtun, apparently the same man who met Litvinenko in London on November 1, the day he is believed to have fallen mortally ill.
“There are indications that there has been a source of radiation there, but no source of radiation has been found,” said Ulrike Sweden, a spokeswoman for Hamburg police.
Next question is where did this Polonium come from prior to Hamburg and was it destined for London? I now there is this amazing tea cup story and how it contaminated a dish washer. But people take drinks in their rooms and we have no idea which cup or glass or whatever contaminated the dishwasher. We still have contaminated rooms – which get cleaned during the day and may have been the source not only for the dirty cup, but residue on many other items like dishes and glasses. So while the media grasps the assassin theory, we have one path for the smuggling angle (which is now clearly something that must also have happened).
I think they’d do the same thing in the bar.
clarice,
“Anna was poisoned first. That failed. (It was on a plane). THEN she was shot. ”
Okay. that means that poisoning failed twice. And someone needed to go in and “clean-up” If it failed twice, and in one instance needed to be done again, then why go the same route the third time. Why not skip the first round and go straight to what works?
Here’s a general question: what would be your “aha!” moment? In other words what would need to happen to prove that this was in fact the work of an assassin? For me, what would prove that it was a smuggling ring, would be a site that was contaminated that would not be required to be so, in order to kill three men. Also, I think that a distinction needs to be made concerning the terms “smuggling ring.” The use of this term does not mean, at least for me, a smugglin for pure lucre. I think that there might have been certain intangibles involved, such as a belief in a cause. A desire to steer events in a direction that you deem a better one. These kinds of “intangibles” could go a long way in explaining some of the problems you might have with a smuggling theory. For example, it was once brought up that if it was a smuggling job, then it was a poor one because all those who stood to profit are now ill, and may soon be dead. This would be a problem if all you cared about was spending your booty! If, however, that was not the ends towards which your efforts were driving, you might find that a loss of a few lives in order to acheive the “greater good” is a small price to pay.
WOG-Use a different poison. And they did.
The Millenium has two bars, the MUj and the Tangerine bar. The tangerine is a cafe/bar and not a likely meeting spot. The MUJ bar is dark and sleek.
I don’t know why the papers refer to a PIne Bar. The hotel’s website doesn’t mention that.
http://www.millenniumhotels.com/MCIL.nsf/lu_hoteldoc/40$$diningentertainment?opendocument
What works? the guys dead — a very debilitating, slow, painful death. And bloggers and others all over are talking about nukes, and smuggling, and Chechen terrorists.
Yup.
The MJU (correct spelling) bar is not open in the morning, so it must have been the Tangerine Cafe/Bar and that is apparently where room service is delivered from as well.
http://www.millenniumhotels.com/MCIL.nsf/LU_RES/40$$DiningEntertainment$$TangerineCaféBar?OpenDocument
wiley,
“What works? the guys dead”
yes but that is hindesight for us. Going into the assassination there is no way for them to have know that it would worked. In fact their most recent history would show that it had not.
clarice
“Use a different poison.”
Okay, if your previous two poisoning attempts failed to kill the person, then why would your next poison of choice be polonium. Something that did not, as far as I know (and that is not all that far!) have a long history in successful applications for assassins.
Wow, did I really type “hindEsight”
WOG – If it’s smuggling, then at least one person, if not more/all, are doing it for $. Obviously, the buyer at the end of the chain wants it for a purpose, but there’s little chance that someone at the source would put themselves at risk unless big $ was the payoff.
BECAUE it’s an ugle, horrid death–fast or slow–and because it was hard to figure out or trace if done correctly and because only the people you want to scare would know (and would be unable to do much about).
wiley
“If it’s smuggling, then at least one person, if not more/all, are doing it for $.”
didn’t say $ wasn’t involved; I simply said that it is not all that could be involved. Some of the previous posts made it sound that if it was about smuggling, then it could ONLY have been about the money.
clarice
“because it was hard to figure out or trace if done correctly”
But we are tracing it, so was it done incorrectly”
“and because only the people you want to scare would know”
It seems that a lot more people are scared then those who were intended to be.
correction….incorrectly” = incorrectly?
I never said the assassin was a poison genius. I do think he gave Litvinenko too great a dose..and I credit the great work of the radiation specialists in London in figuring out so quickly what it was. In most places of the world, we’s never know even with the error.
If there was a smuggling attempt to use the PO, of course the end buyer had a lethal purpose in mind. But to get there (Enlightened pointed this out) many along the chain would do so only for $, and there should be a money trail. Like Enlightened, Clarice & some others, I don’t see the validity of the $30M being attached to the PO as a reason it was not assassination. That figure is meaningless for a state accessible resource.
WOG, Lugovoi et al do not strike me as folks driven by idealism.
Clarice, it’s not the Millennium Knightsbridge. It’s the Millennium Mayfair, near the US Embassy on Grosvenor Square, that has the Pine Bar.
http://www.millenniumhotels.com/MCIL.nsf/LU_RES/39$$DiningEntertainment$$PineBar?OpenDocument
“Lugovoi et al do not strike me as folks driven by idealism.”
Insofar as we can determine that by these reports, of course.
But, neither can you rule it out. Idealism can be hidden if it is to your advantage not to show your cards. Many politicians hide as much during elections. And if those saps can do it anyone can.
Thanks for the catch, Mariposa.
Here’s the pine bar:
http://www.millenniumhotels.com/MCIL.nsf/LU_RES/39$$DiningEntertainment$$PineBar?OpenDocument
And it is open in the mornings.