Nov 10 2006

Liberals Unleashed

Published by at 2:27 pm under All General Discussions

As I posted yesterday Germany did decide to charge Bush administration officials with war crimes.

A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the former Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called “20th hijacker” and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a “special interrogation plan,” personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

So the guy was stripped down and told to squat for a while. Did it save lives? Yes it did! So who wants to die so an terrorist doesn’t have to face humiliation. Remember what we all wrote about the Geneva Conventions. The way they are written means we could be limited to “please’ and ‘pretty please’, so as to not offend these vicious killers we capture.

And not to be done by their EU counterparts, the Democrats feel safe to test the waters by investigating (and therefore further exposing) the NSA’s Terrorist Surveillance Program. The Dems are addicted to the subpoena.

It should be clear to everyone that an administration that allows war crimes is one that could face impeachment for high crimes. Will the Dems do anything to protect our President (he is OUR President whether you voted or him or not)?

Al Qaeda is cheered by the news the Dems are coming to surrender to them, the Europeans are ready to charge us with war crimes against the people targetting them for annihilation, and the Dems want to expose the terrorist defenses we have in place to stop attack. The voters did not give the Democrats this kind of mandate. Now they have to say something about what they plan to do – the run a third of the government now.

51 responses so far

51 Responses to “Liberals Unleashed”

  1. Snapple says:

    A poster named Kathie said that the Kosovars have declared their language to be turkish.

    I never heard this.

    They speak Albanian. The Kosovar Albanians are typically fair-skinned, light-eyed Europeans.

    They were converted to Islam by the Turks. Before that they were Christians. They are not descended from Turks. Their ancestors converted to escape big taxes and other penalties from the turks.

    But they identify as Albanians and I never heard they want to speak Turkish. They are very big into being Albanian, I always read.

    Some Kosovars are still Christians.

  2. Snapple says:

    I did read some Kosovars speak Turkish, but it is not many.

    Some bad things that are said about these Kosovars are really Serbian propaganda.

    The Serbs were actually pretty tight with Saddam.

    The Muslims, except for Turkey, didn’t stick up much for the Kosovars.

    Thatr’s what I read.

  3. Snapple says:

    The Israelis were even helping the Kosovars after they were being killed by the Serbs.

    And the Albanians in the country of Albania–which is mostly Muslim–has been helping the CIA, I read. I think the NYT ratted them out about that.

    I am not saying there aren’t some bad people in Kosovo, but some bad things said about them are Serb propaganda to isolate them.

    Most Albanians are more into being Albanian than being Islamic fanatics. In the past, they revolved against the Turks.

  4. sbd says:

    “Urgently seeking interrogators, debriefers and Arabic linguists” to aid the Defense Intelligence Agency in Baghdad. “Candidates must be clearable to SECRET.”

    Why and how did a company that specializes in information technology get the authority to hire civilian interrogators? Who gave them this task and why?

    CACI’s Mission Statement
    CACI’s mission is to be the world leader in information technology and networld solutions.

    CACI International Inc provides the IT and network solutions needed to prevail in today’s new era of defense, intelligence and e-government.

    The New Yorker
    May 10, 2004

    “A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February.”

    “Contrary to the findings of MG Ryder’s report, I find that personnel assigned to the 372nd MP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to change facility procedures to ‘set the conditions’ for MI interrogations.” Army intelligence officers, C.I.A. agents, and private contractors “actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses.”

    “Another witness, Sergeant Javal Davis, who is also one of the accused, told C.I.D. investigators, “I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section . . . being made to do various things that I would question morally. . . . We were told that they had different rules.” Taguba wrote, “Davis also stated that he had heard MI insinuate to the guards to abuse the inmates. When asked what MI said he stated: ‘Loosen this guy up for us.’ ‘Make sure he has a bad night.’ ‘Make sure he gets the treatment.’ ” Military intelligence made these comments to Graner and Frederick, Davis said. “The MI staffs to my understanding have been giving Graner compliments . . . statements like, ‘Good job, they’re breaking down real fast. They answer every question. They’re giving out good information.’ ”

    General Taguba saved his harshest words for the military-intelligence officers and private contractors. He recommended that Colonel Thomas Pappas, the commander of one of the M.I. brigades, be reprimanded and receive non-judicial punishment, and that Lieutenant Colonel Steven Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center, be relieved of duty and reprimanded. He further urged that a civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International, be fired from his Army job, reprimanded, and denied his security clearances for lying to the investigating team and allowing or ordering military policemen “who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by ‘setting conditions’ which were neither authorized” nor in accordance with Army regulations. “He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse,” Taguba wrote. He also recommended disciplinary action against a second CACI employee, John Israel. (A spokeswoman for CACI said that the company had “received no formal communication” from the Army about the matter.)


  5. For Enforcement says:

    Snapple, I think you are partially right and partially wrong on Kosovo.

    Originally Kosovars were Albanian, and still claim to be primarily. The serbs tried to take them over, then the Turks did take them over and at that time many Turks moved in. Turkish was made their official language. Then Serbs got the upper hand again and moved most Turks out while they moved in. So there certainly has been much intermarriage between Turks, Serbs and Kosovars. So genetically the Kosovars can be a combination of all three(and some others) Even tho they were originally of Albanian descent, they don’t really claim to be Albanian. They desperately want their independence from Serbia and will most likely get it. As you said they were originally christian but became now mostly muslim even tho they don’t seem to be fanatic about it.
    I don’t know what their official language is, Kathie said she heard Turkish. Well many speak Turkish because of heritage, many speak Serb and many speak English. Some of the Kosovars want to be muslim and some christian. And we think America is a melting pot.

  6. Snapple says:

    Dear Enforcement,

    Thanks for your comment. There is a lot of propaganda on both the Serb and Kosovar sides; but in our times, the Serbs murdered 1000s of Albanians whose roots in the area go back to ancient times.

    Yugoslavia is where the Catholics, Orthodox, and Muslims all bump into each other like a geological fault-line. And troublemakers try to make them fight about who got there first.

    I feel the only solution are governments that will respect all the groups but don’t let them persecute their neighbors. There are Muslims and “Christians” who can’t get with the program on this.

    There is a history of ethnic cleansing on both sides.

    I read that the Kosovars were in the mountains and the Turks didn’t mess with them too much, except to make them convert. You can even read that Al Qaeda wants to recruit these people because of their blone hair and blue eyes.

    They are more identified with their nationality than their Muslim religion; according to the CIA factbook Kosovars mostly speak Albanian.

    Albanians revolted against Turkish rule, I think. Kosovars aren’t into all that Umma/Islamic superstate stuff, I don’t think.

    There is a Turkish minority.

    In the country of Albania (not the province of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo) the CIA reportedly had some secret interrogation prisons, so I doubt that Albania is in the Islamist camp. Albania has been thanked for being a partner in the WOT.

    I think it is real important to distinguish different kinds of Muslims.

    If we trash them all, we will never prevail. Christianity has had its times when it spread by the sword, too.

    I myself am a religious person, but sometimes religion gets coopted by bad people and becomes very dangerous.

    That’s why I support secular, but not anti-religious, government.

  7. For Enforcement says:

    Snapple, I pretty well agree with practically all you said there.
    There seems to be a good bit of misunderstanding about Kosovo. I’ve read quite a bit about the history of Kosovo because my nephew recentely married a Kosovar. She is blond. She also speaks Kosovar and English, not Turk. She says they aren’t really religious fanatics there. While many say they are muslims, it’s kinda like here in US where we say we are some religion, but it’s not really a defining identity. There are many Kosovars that tend to be friendly toward US, because US helped out there, but they are very leery of all outsiders. For good reason, it seems everyone just wants to own them.
    They really don’t like the Serbs and Turks. From my understanding I don’t think Al Quaeda can count on them being in their camp either. What I think they really want is freedom. By the way, I have been to Yugoslavia but not Kosovo.

  8. Snapple says:

    I agree with your observations. I think some of the “trash talk” about Kosovars is coming from the Serbs and is not always reliable.

    But I also think that the Serbs who want to stay in their homes in Kosovo should not be run out.

    Some of these people were involved in attacks on Muslim Kosovars, but not all of them.

    My spouse spent time in Macedonia. They talk about their Albanians really badly.

    We should not get into their stupid historical fights about what happened hundreds of years ago. That is just a dead end.

    People who dredge up these historical grievances are trying to start trouble.

  9. Snapple says:

    In the US, people like Ward Churchill try to foment ethnic and religious hatred.

    The American Indian movement (Aim is not just Indians, who serve in our armed forces in very high numbers, but white communists) was even getting money from the Baath Party, according to Churchill’s own Colorado AIM, which had a falling out with the National AIM.

    Al Qaeda will try to forment divisions in our country between political parties, races, and religions.

    They want us to fight each other–not them.

  10. Snapple says:

    The head of the British MI5 made a good point that we should not equate fundamentalism with terrorism.

    There are many religious fundamentalists who are just religious people; they aren’t involved with terrorism.

    They have beliefs we find strange and backward, but if they aren’t forcing their views with violence, we need to be careful not to drive them into the enemy camp by prejudice.

    Calling Muslims bad names is not very smart.

  11. Ken says:


    I never said al Qaeda wasn’t going to praise the Democrats if they won.

    I said al Qaeda has no chance of threatening America as a nation, only America’s unnecessary presence in the Moslem world. They have no army, navy or air force. Moslems are not enthusiastic about a pan-Islamic caliphate which would trump national autonomy but they like
    any militants who seek to expunge the Moslem world from US

    Only hubristic imperialists like you see the need for this
    intervention to begin with. All too typically, you combine an
    advocacy of aggressively intrusive policy abroad with passivity
    at home where the real threat lies from the Latino invasion.
    You have found the worst of both worlds and have mired yourself in