Jun 26 2012

The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Published by at 1:27 pm under All General Discussions,Trayvon Martin Case

This post extends analysis I did in a previous post.

There has been a lot of excellent analysis in the blogosphere regarding George Zimmerman’s claims about the events surrounding his killing of young Trayvon Martin. Analysis clearly in line with the results of the police investigation and the prosecution’s case. While there are many discrepancies throughout Zimmerman’s tall tale, some are simply too big to ignore.

(1) There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him. This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun. In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick. Impossible (see below for why)

Update: For all the doubting Thomas’ out there, you can disprove this yourself.  Try and get your wallet of your pants laying on your back without raising you butt off the ground (this is within inches of where a holster would be inside a waste band).  Then have someone straddle you and try again – note where their legs are.  And finally, pin something under your right arm, have someone straddle you (with their weight on you) and try again.  While the picture above is static, your own experiment will do the trick. In the last case your elbow must bend to get to your back pocket, thus the laws of physics and biology disprove the reenactment by GZ. – end update.

(2) There is almost no GZ blood or DNA on TM. TM should be covered with blood or DNA from the punching and from the claimed suffocation attempt. But there is none.

(3) There is no TM blood or DNA on GZ, which there would be if he was shot while straddling over GZ. Blood would begin to flow and should be all over GZ.

(4) If TM was really banging GZ’s head on concrete, there should be some fractures in the skull. Apparently there are no injuries consistent with multiple hard blows to the head.

(5) Finally, the path of the bullet in TM’s body is not possible from the position described , and really is only possible if both men are standing AND GZ’s arm is extended straight.

When you look at the bullet path inside TM’s body it is pretty clear that this was not a shot from underneath, which would be the  angle if events transpired as Zimmerman claims. In fact, even standing the only way to get a gun that level is with your elbows locked straight out in a typical gun range position.

This post does a great job of highlighting some of these basic issues (and where I was able to collect the bullet path image)

You can’t break the laws of physics/biology/chemistry – this is not a fictional world. The crime scene evidence completely destroys GZ’s story, even before you get to issues like the timeline described vs the timeline recorded on the dispatch call, the lies about why GZ exited the car (to follow TM, not to read house numbers which were right in front of him). Basically, nothing beyond the fact he shot Trayvon appears to be true.

And why would GZ need to lie so much?

Because the truth is his actions led to the death of young Trayvon Martin.  That is the only reason to make up so much fiction.

117 responses so far

117 Responses to “The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims”

  1. Mata says:

    LOL! Yes, I’ve seen that, AJ with some of my leftie shooting pals in the past. But we must have been thinking alike, since I just provided the link to Pt II reenactment, and Mr. Zimmerman’s talking with his hands that he likes to do.

    Whatever his normal course of shooting, which likely his gun shop witnesses can attest to during his practices and couses, that night he was doing all this purely right handed. If the grip is facing for a left draw, his right handed movement demonstrating his grab isn’t showing the physical connundrum of grabbing for the grip that’s facing the wrong way.

    Like I said… don’t know that holster so I don’t know. Maybe it’s a “bi” holster? heh

  2. browngreengold says:

    I am a left-handed guy but have always worn a right-handed holster simply because that is what it came with from the prior owner.

    I don’t carry on a routine basis though. Mainly only when I go fishing or hunting. I am, without question, a left-hand dominant shooter. I would hate to see what my targets would look like if I used my right hand to actually grip the gun.

    I am wondering if the whole “handedness” thing is what the gun store/shooting range folk are on the witness list for.

  3. Joaquin says:

    Hi Mata. Looks like you win today’s booby prize. I found an evidence photo showing the reverse side of Zimmerman’s holster. The belt clip is clearly visable on the ouside face of what the Sanford police report describes an IWB holster. Apparently the Youtube video I posted was in error.

    Pictured is an IWB holster for a right handed shooter. Either that, or I’m hopelessly dyslexic.


    This still doesn’t negate the improbable, pretzel-esque contortion that Zimmerman illustrates in the reenactment video. Notice how he’s forced to curl his hand back in a palsy-like contraction at the top of the draw. This is the only way he could complete the maneuver without completely exposing the hand he’s [ostensibly] trapping between his upper arm and ribcage.

  4. Joaquin says:

    My third paragraph should read: “This still doesn’t negate the improbability of the pretzel-esque contortion that Zimmerman illustrates in the reenactment video.”


  5. Mata says:

    Thanks for a second link to the crime scene photos. This site has a few more than the other one did.

    I didn’t argue that it was, or was not, a left handed holster, Joaquin. No clue since I couldn’t sell whether that was velco, a loop or a metal clip from the only photo I’d see. Simple wasn’t that good of definition. I find it even more interesting that it’s a black holster in the group evidence shot, but brown in the single shot. WTF? Even the gun doesn’t have that much color alteration from the group shot to the individual close up.

    I have no clue what his normal shooting habits are, but that is sure an odd holster placement for a front cross draw that demands some torso twisting unless you’re a gorilla. But as AJ noted, maybe he normally does a draw across the back But GZ most definitely pats where it’s located, and it’s not friendly for that type of draw…. most especially with his right hand.

    And whatever his normal habits, he did everything that night right handed.. per his own demonstration… including holstering his gun at a time when he could have switched hands to do so. Sorta makes the question as to how he drew his gun moot as to whether he was a south paw or not since, for that event, he wasn’t. Seemed quite comfortable with it all.

    BTW, I didn’t see a “palsy” like curling. I saw a hand that was rounded in a “grip” fashion, as if he could easily pull it out. But there’s no doubt if the grip were facing the left side of his body, drawing the gun and moving it around in his hand for proper positioning was going to take some extra dexterity.

  6. Joaquin says:

    Hi Mata. The “palsy-like” movement can be seen in the slo-mo.


    Without this awkward articulation, Z would have to bend his elbow, exposing/releasing the “assailant’s” hand.

    Right handed carry at the 4/5 o’clock hip position is pretty common. This location facilitates concealment, especially with an open jacket, or coat.

    @ the 1:42 marker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f65Bo4F4E50

  7. Mata says:

    Not having preview is a bear, eh, Joaquin?

    BTW, I watched the YouTube video that you linked again. They came to the wrong determination that it’s a LH holster when you think it’s a RH holster. I couldn’t tell from the group shot, but if it’s the same as the “brown” close up shot, it’s definitely a RH holster, making him a likely RH shooter. Not particularly unusual for many south paws.

    This, again, goes back to that sweeping “reaching” for …???… that GZ perpetually does just before Martin supposedly (and if so, justifiably) hit him. If he’s a right handed shooter, using a RH holster, that’s exactly the hand he would have used to draw on Martin.

    Which then brings us back to just when did he really draw the gun, and is it feasible he did so in the fight he describes.

    So what’s the booby prize for, and what size cups? :0)

  8. Mata says:

    Don’t disagree that the rear hip placement for a RH carry is common. It wouldn’t be common for a LH shooter tho, save under the “across the back” draw that AJ says.

    I’ve always thought he was a right handed shooter.

  9. Layman says:

    Just rewatched the video from the link in Mata’s post above, Paying real close attention to GZ’s description of TM’s body position.

    He never says he was “mounted.” Never says TM was in the position shown in AJ’s photo above. In fact, he says that TM was on top of him and indicates he was on his feet leaning over him. Had his hands on his nose and face while crouched (semi-standing) over him. Go back and look at the video at the 5:58 mark.

    Also, describes TM punching him in the face and then fighting him off as they move from the T to the final position. No disrepancy there, see 3:50. Also, describes the weapon draw and firing and TM’s position at 5:30. Not inconsistent. Not impossible.

    Seems to me that there are a lot of suppositions going on about where the confrontation took place, how it ended up, and what is or is not possible. I’ve been accused of making up stuff to make GZ look innocent. If that’s true then a lot of folks have been doing exactly the opposite. Making up stuff, using certain descriptions/facts and ignoring others, doing a lot of supposition and guessing to make their points to prove GZ is a liar and guilty.

    One thing is certain though: if (and I say if) TM was stradling GZ and semi-standing (as GZ describes) not sitting down on him, then the gun shot wound angle is consistent with GZ’s story.

  10. Layman says:

    Does anyone have a hip holster? Fits on the belt at the hip and has a built in rotation feature allowing easy access to the grip? Does it make any sense at all that in a struggle the botton of the holster (with the barrell) would rotate toward the back and the handle would rotate toward the front? This would make access and draw a bit easier.

    I got down on the carpet and rolled around with my son on top of me (holster only, no handgun) and this is exactly what happened as I rolled back to side, back to side. My hip pushed the bottom (barrel) of the holster into the carpet causing it to rotate.

    An empirical experiment, not proof, but interesting.

  11. Mata says:

    Layman, I’m sorry but you’re going to have to invest some time in listening to all of GZ’s various statements. This one fable at a time bit, without hearing all the stories is a bit difficult. This way you can hear for yourself the various statements, the Q&As from both Serino and Singleton, and the GZ explanations (when he can give them) on the discrepancies for yourself.

    And I’m going to make that easy for you. You already have the reenactment links. Here’s the link to statements and CVSA (which has yet another account and Q&A) from the GZ Legal site. You’re simply going to have to hear for yourself GZ’s multiple falsehoods that include, but are not limited to:

    1: Where the “circling” and supposed “fear” comes in, and whether it’s physically possible

    2: How many times that GZ lied about where he finished his phone call with the dispatcher (at the tee, and not at RVC, as he says three times in the 2-29-12 Pt 3 interview with Serino/Singleton)

    3: His various excuses as to why he exited the car to begin with

    4: This razzle dazzle about receiving instructions from the dispatcher for exact addresses as his reason for not returning to the car, as well as using his ADHD as an excuse as to why he couldn’t remember the name of one of three streets in his ‘hood. But he can account for a prior “suspect” event with details.

    5: His repeated falsehoods that he agreed to meet the LEO at his car (which he didn’t)

    6: His repeated story that Martin attacked him at the tee, and he immediately fell backwards….. no he stumbled… no he fell backwards and landed on the ground right then and there.

    7: That where he states his head was based is still 30 ft away from where the body was found.. that’s a heck of a “fall” or “push”… and about 10’ from where he was punched an attacked.

    8: That there was no argument… only TM attacking him at the tee, and was on top of him close to immediately, GZ screaming, and the fight that started at the tee (and mounted at that time)was ended by the gunshot. No argument, just a punch, him falling, TM mounting and beating, him yelling, and a gunshot… all over 43-45 ft away from where the body was found. And yes, TZ uses both the phrases “mounted” and “on top of me” in almost all instances… not the semi crouch demonstrated.

    ouch… Perhaps GZ didn’t want to get his knees dirty during that demonstrative body move… who knows. But it’s just one more lie to chalk up.

    9: Serino confirms what I came to (INRE the “reaching” movement as the motivation) in one of his 2/29/12 interviews with Zim. That Martin felt compelled to exercise self defense because when TM supposedly asked him a question, GZ says he “backed away” and “reached” for….?…. his cell, but couldn’t remember which pocket (heh) he put it in.

    Now I’m 100% sure this is where the State is going with their murder two charge.

    10: Lies that he was smothered because of the yells never being stifled audibly, and GZ can’t pinpoint where he was supposedly smothered (because he wasn’t…). Personally, I’m of the mind that it was Martin screaming after listening so many times, and hearing GZs voice thru so many interviews. Tho it will be difficult to prove either way.

    Dang… could rack up more, but that’s 10 already. All of which will be abundantly clear if you take the time to

    a: read the GZ statement that night and then
    b: listen to the GZ various interviews in their chronological order

    Anyone is going to be left scratching their heads to the potpourri of concocted fables here. But the blind supporters will still attempt to explain it away… whether be the PTSD argument, or the ADHD and his drugs.. taken twice daily… that they want to ignore.

    INRE this “semi standing”. You really want to go there? Do tell us how a “semi-standing” Martin was able to be so steady on his feet with a “Squirming” GZ, trying to move his body away from the sidewalk and still be smothering him while he’s supposed clearly yelling for help?

    Dang… “willing suspension of disbelief”. Even my 8 year old granddaughter could knock anyone off their balance attempting to do all that from a “semi-standing” position. Martin’s hands are supposedly, and simultaneously, on his head (banging), but also covering his nose and mouth.. and, oh yeah, reaching for the gun…. all while “semi-straddling” from a crouch position?

    So were Zim’s legs free to easily kick his feet out from underneat Martin, in this the semi-standing position? That’s a lot to be accomplishing while not firmly planted on the ground, don’t you think?

    Frankly, Zim better hope it’s construed he was pinned, because otherwise he’s guilty of whining and fighting like a preteen prom queen. “Semi straddling”… LOL That would truly be embarrassing.

    I’ll tell you what. I’m going to agree that the position that AJ posits never happened too. But then, that’s exactly what AJ has been saying all along, isn’t it?

  12. Layman says:

    Mata: just trying to figure out where the defense is going to take the reasonable doubt argument and if it is reasonable.

    Either you don’t understand the “semi-standing” argument or you’re deliberately being obtuse. I’ll try another description to see if you can follow.

    Ever see a football player in a 3 or 4 point stance? Feet wide? Well balanced? Take that as the starting position and then envision the struggle unfold.

    Just because you think GZ is full of crap you don’t need to embarrass yourself with ridiculous hyperbole, “… Fighting like a preteen prom queen…”

  13. AJStrata says:


    We get the idea on the stance. But it is not going to work either. For one, you can kick the legs out of the person on top easily. Two, it won’t help with the bullet path at all. Three, it is not what GZ testified happen.

    Your not going to salvage this one. The evidence against his concocted stories is too strong. And remember, he admits to the killing, so he HAS to win the self defense argument and it needs to be air tight. Contrary to the mythology of reasonable doubt, when it finally hits the jury/court that TM had the right to stand his ground, then it is all over for GZ. He has to prove he had a right to take a life.

    His arguments are full of holes, lies and omissions. Which means he cannot prove he had a right to take a life.

    Period. This is where reality takes over from theory.

  14. Mata says:

    Layman, what AJ said… If, during a “3 or 4 point stance”, even balanced, plus TM using both hands to cover nose and mouth…. no wait, bending over and grabbing his neck and pounding his head into the cement… no wait again, continually punching him…. no that can’t be because one of his hands is reaching down his side for the gun….

    … all from this 3/4 point stance?

    So tell me, what was that poor helpless GZ doing with his free hands and legs during that 45 second or so fight?

    With all of his limbs unencumbered and at his disposal, if he can’t knock this superman octopus off balance, he is fighting like a preteen prom queen. You needn’t take it so personally… unless GZ is a personal bud of yours and you feel the need to defend him.

  15. Mata says:

    I might also add to the “limbs unencumbered and at his disposal” observation I made that he also doesn’t have the disadvantage of Martin’s weight on him as a limitation on his movements.

    Nope… a straddling position would only make his “self defense” claims even worse.

  16. Joaquin says:

    Hi Layman. Zimmerman clearly states that Martin was ‘mounted’ on top of him in the SPD interviews. And if you replay the reenactment video, you will see Zimmerman demonstrate the same standing, shallow-knee-dip when he describes sitting on top of Martin’s back while restraining his arms. In the videotaped walk through, he simply didn’t complete the motion to a kneeling position on the ground.

  17. Joaquin says:

    Poll: Do you believe George Zimmerman’s version of events?

    I’ve been following a small, informal public opinion poll since it’s inception on Monday a week ago. The hosting blog, ‘Eyes for Lies,’ is owned by a self-proclaimed “Deception Expert,” whatever that is, and sentiment is running decidedly against George Zimmerman.

    Since I’m unfamiliar with this blog’s political demographic (though the site may be ideologically neutral for all I know), I’ll post this link with a caveat: For entertainment purposes only.


  18. Mata says:

    Interesting site, Joaquin. Don’t know if you caught “Renee’s” article about Zimmerman’s credibility as well. And she only analyzed the video reenactment, the dispatcher call and his written statement. She would have had a field day had she also caught the rest of his audio interviews, and the other event’s version (plus Q&A) on the CVSA video.

    No glowing endorsement from her, and she’s pretty convinced he’s not telling the truth about the events of the night. Hey, get in line…

    From her about bio information on the site:

    Eyes for Lies (aka Renee) is a professional deception and credibility expert. She assists law enforcement on homicides and other cases involving deception, and teaches law enforcement how to spot reliable clues to deception in her training course. Eyes for Lies teaches law enforcement at the federal, state and local levels nationally.

  19. Layman says:

    Folks: At the risk of provoking more 14 point responses let’s see if I can set this up for you.

    1. I’ve said since day one that GZ bears some level of responsibility for TM’s death.
    2. We agree things look bleak for GZ.
    3. We agree the Prosecution is going to use physical evidence, witness testimony, and GZ’s own (inconsistent) statements against him.

    So I’ve moved on. I’m looking at so called smoking guns and trying to see if the Defense can present a logical, believeable scenario to explain things away. AJ started this post off early with the picture of the wound angle stating that it PROVED GZ’s story was false. I still disagree. The version of events I proposed is a realistic possibility and might be able to be used as a way to explain the bullet wound angle. You can make 3rd grade derisions all you like but it doesn’t change things.

    When I got home from work this afternoon I got my 16 year old son (6′, 195lbs) to wrestle with his old man (56, 6’1″, 210 lbs). I layed on my back, got him to stand over me in a four point stance, grab my wrists, and then asked him to keep me from getting away. Our struggle lasted only a couple minutes and his position varied from a mount, to a one knee up/one knee on the ground, and posted (semi-standing) position. I tried hard and I could create some space between us but I could not get away. AJ, maybe I’m feeble but I could not “kick the legs out of the person on top easily.”

    So you may be a great engineer, but “This is where reality takes over from theory.” My son is close to Trayvon in size and I’m probably close to GZ (and my advanced age simulates a blow or two to the face).

    And before any of you respond half-cocked: I am not saying GZ was justified. I am not saying TM got what he deserved. I am not saying GZ is an angelic, truth telling, poster boy for gun rights. I’m simply trying to point out a direction the Defense might go and I’ve shown by doing an empirical experiment that (on this one point) it is in the realm of possibility.

    I’m going on vacation tomorrow and will be gone for two weeks – otherwise I’d get my son to re-do our experiment, film it, and put it up on YouTube.

  20. Mata says:

    Layman, why would you have your son “grab” your wrists? Zimmerman has never said Martin had his wrists.

    One, or both, of Martin’s hands were in these various places, according to GZ:

    1: covering Zim’s mouth and nose (with both hands)
    2: around his neck or head, banging his head (again both hands)
    3: or one hand was reaching for a gun (one hand)

    You might want to rethink your experiment.