Apr 11 2012
Justice Served In Trayvon Martin Case
Yes, this the Trayvon Martin killing is a complex and tragic case. As I predicted when first posting on this matter, it was clear charges were coming since George Zimmerman had plenty of off-ramps to avoid the confrontation and the end result. This is the right path to take. This will shut down the nonsense from far right and far right, and allow the rules of evidence and trial to work the proper conclusion.
I was very surprised the charge was 2nd degree murder (I was expecting a lesser charge) but that only confirms my original suspicion that the evidence was much clearer than many suspected it was.
Now we follow the process for justice, and as the prosecutor said – Trayvon Martin is the victim here, not Zimmerman.
Update: This is clearly the form of 2nd Degree Murder being used in the charge:
Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.
As I have said many times, Zimmerman had not authority or right to follow and confront Martin while armed. This was not a race crime, but a crime of someone playing vigilante and ignoring warnings by police to avoid a situation. And that is a ‘depraved mind’ in my book.
Update 2: Watching the National Action Network with Al Sharpton and Attorney Crump I have to applaud their statements. They were measured, humbled and focused on bringing American justice for an American child. As Crump noted, it really is for all the young people we needed to take the time to assess the evidence and do what is right. And as Sharpton said, this is not a celebration, simply one successful step in the right direction. Well done folks. And well done for all those calling for calm and allowing the process to run.
Update 3: I expected a little more discussion from Hot Air on this, but their one post on this is here.
Maybe there is hope for this nation and all its people. God’s Speed Trayvon
very interesting, all the talking heads say this is the most difficult for the prosecution to prove, lot higher standard than manslaughter. I’m not convinced one way or the other, but I’ve seen zero evidence of anything that would sway me to vote him guilty, but then I’ve seen nothing that would cause me to say that Martin was at fault either. I guess the special prosecutor is privy to evidence that has not been made public.
I strongly believe the special prosecutor was only trying to avert the inevitable race riots that will take place if Zimmerman is not convicted, as I believe will be the case.
If they have a solid case, the trial should begin soon, no delay is necessary, it’s not gonna change the facts.
AJ, where did you get this info? I haven’t seen this or heard it in any of the tapes that have been made public.
“and ignoring warnings by police to avoid a situation.”
I would never applaud a statement by Al Sharpton, he is one of the most outspoken racial rabble rousers of all time and does not deserve a public platform.
he screwed up by leaving Florida, he knew better than that. that’s why his attorneys quit, and pretty much forced the prosecutor to indict.
I interpret the higher charge differently; I think the prosecutor decided to go with a case that has a very slim chance of conviction. you can speculate why she would do that as easily as i can.
I can’t see how any American can say justice has been done. That will come from a judge and a jury. All we have today is an arrest.
WWS, just curious, what do you think of the lack of ethics on the part of those (supposed to be) attorneys that announced publicly how bad a client Zimmerman is, discussed Zimmerman’s conversations, discussed privileged information? I think the bar review should be this afternoon and their licenses suspended right afterward. I have never seen so flagrant a violation of attorney-client privilege. This is a whole lot closer to a slam dunk than the Zimmerman case is.
as I said, just curious.
I hope that now that they have chosen to charge him, they will begin to release some info that we have not seen.
AJ,
A far more accurate appraisal would be that a fuse has been lit.
Convincing people there are different rules of law for different races is a “flaming datum” on the destruction of the rule of law period dot.
Especially when Zimmerman’s ex-lawyers actions taint the entire legal profession.
See:
http://mobile.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/04/trayvon_martin_case_did_george_zimmerman_s_lawyers_violate_the_american_bar_association_s_ethical_guidelines_.html
Hold on everyone – we need to wait and see the actual bill of charges. He may be charged with several crimes, giving the jury an out. Based on what I’ve seen and heard so far Murder 2 is going to be very hard to prove, whereas Manslaughter could be an easier road.
“The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.”
I don’t think the prosecution approach was NOT tainted by the race pimps.
It doesn’t matter what happens from now on. The end result will be explosive…
Thanks Layman – the voice of sanity.
Anytime a child is killed in a place he is staying or living it should be noted there will be charges and a trial. Because there is no excuse for this.
I find it laughable how many people have lectured on waiting for evidence and failed to practice what they preach. Death at another person’s hands is almost always a crime of one kind or another.
The exception of course is abortion.
All those supposed-to-be legal experts and right-to-life types should know taking a life is wrong and rarely legal. I find it laughable for someone to be against a mother killing her unborn child, yet able to find a legal out or a pretend-neighborhood cop to kill someone elses child.
The irony is legion here. Should I be impressed with such inconsistency and duplicity?
dbostan et al,
Why would a conviction of Zimmerman be explosive? Are you so naively convinced of his innocence you would never consider a guilty verdict valid?
Spare me excuses. Either our justice system works or doesn’t. This is not a win for the left, simply justice for a kid killed way too early in life by a man who had no business running around with a gun.
If you understood the VA approach to right to carry, right to conceal carry, you would understand that the right comes with high responsibility. Something Zimmerman failed.
Conservatives who demand an individual be responsible for their decisions should be looking at this case without race and Sharpton in the mix.
“Are you so naively convinced of his innocence you would never consider a guilty verdict valid?”
you didn’t ask this of me, but I would consider either verdict valid, depending on the evidence. but I think what dbostan was referring to, and I’m sure he’s correct is that IF he is found innocent, there will be a huge, terrific racial demonstration. while the black panthers, that have offered a $10,000 dead or alive bounty, will peacefully accept a guilty plea, I don’t think they are so sold on the integrity of the justice system that they will peacefully accept an innocent verdict. Unfortunately, that is the crowd that is most vocal and will be heard, much more so than You or I.
I didn’t mean guilty ‘plea’, I meant conviction.
1) I agree with AJ that carrying a weapon comes with a high standard of responsibility. There is a legitimate question as to whether that standard was met; but there is no proof (in evidence that I am aware of) that it was not met, and there is specific witness testimony and photographic evidence that at least corroborates certain aspects of Zimmerman’s account of the encounter.
2) AJ is ‘all-in’ on Zimmerman being guilty and pretty obviously ignores and discounts any evidence to the contrary. Inconsistency and duplicity noted.
3) The appeal to innocence by AJ: “Anytime a child is killed in a place he is staying or living”. Was Trayvon a child? Not necissarily in Florida. If Zimmerman’s account is truthful and if his life was threatened, then Trayvon may have been tried as an adult. Perhaps more accurate to describe Trayvon as an adolescent, a teenager, or a 17-yo. Stating that Trayvon is a “Child” is an emotional appeal, but not an accurate one.
NewEnglandDevil,
Thanks for commenting! To be clear, I suspect Zimmerman to be guilty only because of similarities to past experiences with vigilante types.
It is interesting you bring up the tried as an adult example – my daughter did the same thing. But as I pointed out make Trayvon 16 and he is physically about the same, but not capable of driving.
Your first point, responsible gun control, is my main point. To have a gun makes you responsible for the use of it.
I simply don’t give Zimmerman carte blanche on this one. Anymore I would give a drunk driver a pass, a babysitter whose negligence leads to a death a break, etc.
I am a true conservative in that I demand individual choice and responsibility.
Clearly I live in my own private Idaho! Please keep commenting – I love to see the views.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-i-called-george-zimmerman-a-murderer-and-why-i-was-wrong/
Obviously, IMO, Zimmerman messed up, whether he was right or wrong with regard to the actual use of his weapon. He messed up because he put himself in a position where, he claims, it was his only option. He put himself in that position, he wasn’t forced into that position (i.e. alone, outside of his vehicle).
But “messed up” does not a “manslaughter-er” or “murderer” make. Getting out of his vehicle before the police arrived and controlled the scene was the first in a series of mistakes by Zimmerman, and possibly Trayvon.
If you’ve had trouble with vigilante types in the past, I can understand your skepticism wrt Zimmerman. The contrary argument is that he was a citizen that was trying to take responsibility for his community. He was the guy passing out flyers to raise awareness when a homeless black man was killed by the son of a Sanford PD officer. He made 46ish calls to the police department over a span of eight years in a neighborhood that was seeing a significant amount of property crime. And I’ve seen some reports that Trayvon was subject to significant disciplinary action at school which was the reason he was in that neighborhood and not with, I believe, his father.
Food for thought. I don’t like the way it played out – they should arrest and charge the new black panthers who put the bounty out there – but we can now hope for a full vetting of the evidence, at least.
the actions of zimmermann’s lawyers are troubling – one could think that they were just bailing out and going for the publicity-whore angle themselves. He made a bad choice of attorneys – but he also violated an unspoken but iron rule: if you refuse to take your lawyers advice and make them look stupid, they’re gonna take their revenge on you in ways you haven’t thought of. The worst part of this is that everyone else in the biz is gonna let them get away with it, because that’s how the paying customers are kept in line.
You think this is an exaggeration? I know of a guy doing 18 years in prison when he should have gotten 2 years probation for this reason alone. Happens every day. And no one will lift a finger against his lawyers, because that’s how the system protects itself. Wanna end up like Zimmermann? every lawyer in Florida is gonna say for the next 20 years. “Then just try not doing what we tell you to do.”
If you were to say that sounds like some kind of protection racket, I’d have to say you were making a pretty shrewd observation.
This is really a setup (that isn’t a slam dunk but pretty close).
From all the evidence available to the first prosecutor, Zimmerman can beat a 2nd degree murder charge (but possibly not a lesser charge). I fully expect at the end of the process that Zimmerman will walk.
The fact that Zimmerman was in custody immediately tells me that he may have suggested this course of action. It serves him in that it calms things down, makes the evidence do to the talking (not the press or Rev. Al), and leaves him a course to where he can be seen in public again with a more remote likelihood that he will be gunned down. I say more likely because some will not be satisfied if (and probably when) he is acquitted.
Facts you are missing, Al. This “child” was over 6 ft. tall and had a hoodie covering his face. He wasn’t still that sweet looking little boy in that picture they keep showing us. Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch duty. It wouldn’t be necessary for neighbors to have to volunteer to patrol their neighborhoods if the criminals weren’t making regular raids on the homes in that area. The eye witness said that this “child” had Zimmerman on the ground as was trying to bash his brains out by repeatedling banging his head on the ground.
This was after this “sweet little 6 ft plus boy” had broken Zimmerman’s nose. Zimmerman had gone back to his truck. This “child” followed Zimmerman and confronted him with a blow to the face that broke his nose. If Zimmerman had been the wild eyed racist vigilante that the media has convinced you that he is, he would have shot him before he had a chance to get on top of him and start banging his head on the ground. And the “child’s” body ” would have more signs of a fight than just a bullet hole in him.
The domestic Mau Mau has promised to get us honkey whities and a bunch of them have already started by attacking the elderly and vulnerable white people who are caught alone. These people are just looking for an excuse to attack white people. For the apst 50 years they have been taught that white people are all evil and responsible for all their problems. The last time white people were the victims of attacks by this protected class, The KKK was formed to even the playing field. At the time the KKK was needed to redress a bad situation. But just like the Unions and civil rights movement, once they realized they had the power, they began to abuse it and push for special rights. Al Sharpton and Rev. Wright and their ilk may be calling for race riots but they should remember, every time there have been race riots in this country it’s the black people who have paid the biggest price. Does anyone remember to race riots of 1923? In some cities, every black person in town were killed.