Oct 16 2011
David Loses To Cain On Meet The Press
Herman Cain’s debut on MTP was huge success today. His position on the issues was solid and bold, but David Gregory provided a huge bonus. Gregory provided the ultimate liberal-media foil – a clueless, math challenged and arrogant member of the Political Industrial Complex.
When Cain tried to explain that State Taxes were unchanged under his 9-9-9 plan, and that his plan swapped out the current federal tax for a new one which had lots of lowered hidden taxes removed, Gregory couldn’t grasp the concept that if you paid a net less under 9-9-9, then when you combined a static state tax with 9-9-9, you would still be paying less.
It was an exquisite moment showing why math challenged journalists have no business trying to ‘explain’ modern policy decisions.
Gregory also basically misrepresented Cain when he stated Cain would not rely on wise-men, when in fact (and Gregory knew this) Cain said he would not ‘lean’ on wise men and women. In fact, Cain has said many times he plans to build a solidly experienced team of advisers, a team that would operate under his broad guidelines.
The best moment was when David Gregory asked if Cain really wanted an electrified fence at the border that could kill people. Cain just looked him in the eyes as if to say “you poor sap” and then simply said “it was a joke”. One apparently Gregory missed.
Cain slew David on MTP this morning, no doubt about it.
Cain nailed the debut. He was sharp, easy going and communicated well. His positions are perfect. He supports traditional marriage, he will not work to repeal same sex marriage. He is personally against all abortions, even in the case of rape and incest. But when asked what about the health of the mother he followed the obvious libertarian path of leaving those decisions to the family. My guess is he, like me, would work to make abortions of convenience a rare choice, but leave the overall decision in the hands of the people – where it belongs for now.
What caught everyone’s ear is his current fundraising. The last 2 weeks he has seen $2 million in donations, which means he is more than a blip. If his fundraising becomes a steady tier one flow, then he will win the nomination, and be bequeathed all those Romney and Perry organizational resources that always go to the winner.
Cain is right, message trumps money or organization. If he does succeed, it will be the liberal establishment against conservative main street. And we all know which of those have the most voters.
Update: Ann Althouse also thinks Cain nailed his appearance. I don’t think he is going to fade away like the others.
What I like about the 9% sales tax is that it captures revenues that are currently missed by our tax system. For example, drug dealers, hookers, people working “off the books”, people selling stuff on eBay and other venues that aren’t declaring their income, panhandlers (even some “professional” panhandlers) will all pay their tax when they buy something with the money they are collecting that they never put on their income tax form before.
Every dollar earned eventually gets spent. That is a way to tax that part of the economy that is often hidden from the IRS.
I didn’t see the show, since it wasn’t on Fox News, it probably was overall a waste of time. that being said:
“Gregory couldn’t grasp the concept that if you paid a net less under 9-9-9, then when you combined a static state tax with 9-9-9, you would still be paying less.”
I sure wouldn’t disagree with that statement, but I’m not sure the intent is to actually lower total revenue to the government, I think it is to greatly reduce the amount the government spends. If spending ever gets down to income, then we should start reducing revenues.
I have tried to find the ‘9-9-9’ plan but have been unable to. If someone has a link, I’d appreciate it. I will say this, if I suddenly starting having to pay 9% sales tax and a flat rate of 9% on gross income, I would be paying a hell of a lot more taxes than I do now (and my gross income is between $100K and $200K and, I take just all the ‘standard deductions’, nothing itemized.
Let’s do a little simple math. 100K x .09 =$9000. So now I have 91K to spend. $91K x .09 =$8190 so now we have 100K-9k-8,190K = 82.81K left to spend. That is a hell of a lot less out of my first 100K left for me to spend than I presently have to spend out of that same 100K (the other 9 is business tax and wouldn’t include me) but bottom line, out of that 100K in income, I would have about 10K less to spend for myself. I would then be donating it to supporting illegal aliens.
One thing is for sure, that 9-9-9 would likely be 10-10-10 and rising ever year afterward, but hey, we gotta start somewhere
Very heavy sales taxes will, of course, mean that many many more sales will be ‘personal’ sales, rather than to a business that has to collect sales taxes. The ‘underground would flourish’. I presently pay 8.9% local and state sales taxes. 9% more means out of every dollar of income I have, 26.9 cents will go to ‘others’. kinda oppressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKkDcDmf7I
from the man who is Cain’s chief econ advisor: it’s a start so we can all begin to understand it rather than jump to conclusions
Cain will maintain his composure and continue to explain the layers of what he intends.
The MSM and the Left (which are the same thing) will do their damnedest to destroy Cain, for he is a bigger threat to them than Clarence Thomas was.
A few points as to 9 9 9 as I understand it.
1.) the payroll deduction is eliminated so your 3% and the employers match goes away, the employer should reimburse you via your salary his 3%, say he just does 2%, Win! Win! You have more money and keep more each week and so does the employer.
2.) Estate taxes are also gone! Cap gains taxes are gone! Freeing up even more capital!
3.) Corporate taxes are reduced to 9% freeing up more capital! Perhaps bringing industry back from overseas!
4.) After the above “raises to income” a 9% sales tax is instituted, but the market, competition, and reduced corporate taxes may dictate that the consumer not pay the full 9%. Businesses being free to set their prices with the knowledge they get to keep more of the profits and more capital gains may choose to lower prices to offset the 9% say to a net 5%.
I bet food will be exempted and I have heard used cars will be also, as lower income earners usually buy them. This is the area where social engineering could arise again say exempting homes under a certain price or a graduated per cent sales tax based on price.
All the FAILED analysis I have seen, even by very astute mathematicians, politicians, phony economists and the PRESSTITUTES, fails to account for the dynamics of an employer not matching the 3% and a seller not passing on the full 9%.
Art Laffer would say this freed up capital, and a free enterprise competitive market place would generate incredible sales, production, innovation, and revenues to business and the Federal Treasury.
Using static analysis it does not work, but the dynamics unleashed would unleash the full power of the marketplace and competitive, profit seeking entrepreneurs ramping up the economy to grow us out of the liberal caused mess.
Then put the Federal Government on the Lean Six Sigma formula for cutting waste fraud and corruption and we have the ability to grow and save our way out of this in five years.
Do the same things we have been doing the same way we have been doing them and watch the whole economy collapse, an Alinsky, socialist dream and ultimate goal!
We have a very short window to get this right. I am so confident in the 47% non payers that I have stocked up on cash, ammo, food, water and a generator.
Redteam, I don’t know what your net countable income is; but, assuming it is 100,000 after all of your deductions then what are you talking about? The tax rate for that bracket is 28% right there. Either way, you are also forgeting that the income tax replaces the current taxes including payroll taxes (social security/medicare) –which means you would need to add that back in to your take home pay. That is atleast 7.65% of your gross income added back in. When he talks about the poor he talks about this being 15% because of what the employer matches. The rate is different if you are self employed. Then, the sales tax applies to new prouducts. I assume food, utilities may be in that. I don’t think it will include mortgage or rent (but, I don’t know all the details either). In any regard, not all of the rest of your income is taxed at 9%….only the purchase of new products. You might want to refigure some of that. The basics of his 999 plan are on his webpage. There is no detailed writing of the 999 plan out there which is why there is a lot of confusion.
I also think Cain’s response to David Gregory’s attempt at a gotcha quesition re “do you even know what neo-conservatism is?” was brilliant. He just brought it back around to what he knows as a conservative. I still remember when Bush was President all the liberal attacks using the word “neo-conservative” as “war-monger”.
Frogg1, I’m not trying to be negative to anyone and/or anything, but I went back and looked so I can talk real numbers. first, I’m over 65, retired, don’t pay social security/medicare, but did for over 40 years and am now drawing on it. anyhow, my income was $107,682 and i used standard deductions and my taxes were $12,792. So, let’s go from there. 107,682x .09 = 9691 107682-9691=97990 97990x .09=8819 9691+8819=18510 so if I can add and subtract, my taxes would go from 12792 to $18,510 or a 44.6% increase. As I pointed out above, yes, I can avoid buying legally and go to the black market and avoid all these taxes, but let’s play it fair and square. Are you ok with a retired persons federal taxes going up 44.6%? I don’t know where your 28% tax bracket comes from, but I’m talking real numbers, not hypothetical.. Yes, I realize the theory is that using a new system would remove all the ‘hidden’ taxes and prices would come down, so okay, let’s say all that happens and my taxes only go up, what? 25%? that okay? not with me…
Why is it ok for state and local sales tax to be at 9% for poor folks but evil of the federal government wants to do it?
Most poor people spend most of their money on food and rent which would be exempt from sales tax.
How about a compromise, how about everyone making less than $100,000 a year pays NO income tax and pays sales tax only. No forms, no withholding, no cheating. The first $100K of everyone’s income is exempt from income tax.
Everyone would pay a 9% federal sales tax.
All of your investments are “tax free” until someone actually spends the money or unless you income is over $100K.
Who said food and rent would be exempt from sales tax? So by having a ‘limit’ of $100K that means there will still be ‘shielding’ money from showing up as income. how do we prevent the ‘cheating’? My proposal, just do away with tax on income and charge only a sales tax, on everything. Of course, we would then become only a ‘black market’ economy… I don’t know how to accomplish the whole thing, but i’m in favor of revising the whole taxing deal so that everyone pays the right amount, I just don’t know how to figure out how to do that. I do know that at the beginning, it should be revenue neutral, not an increase. then we need to start reducing spending so that taxes can go DOWN!
Excuse me, but I forgot. If rent is exempt and house payments are not, would this hurt the real estate sales business? of course it would, there would never be another house sold. we would all rent. For every correct answer there is another seemingly unanswerable question.
Redteam, you are right. You would be in the 28% tax bracket on countable income; but, it actully averages out to about 21% (single) or 17% (if married) if this calculator is right:
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
If you are retired then you are correct….you don’t pay payroll taxes. I don’t know what form your income is other than the social security you mentioned. However, Cain recently said that the elderly are not hurt under his plan giving the example that social security, dividends, stock income etc are not taxed as income under his plan.
Herman Cain: Cost of goods will go down under 999 plan
http://www.therightscoop.com/herman-cain-cost-of-goods-will-go-down-under-999-plan/
The truth is, all we really have is the “essence” of his 999 plan on his webpage. I don’t think we have all the nitty, gritty details yet. I’m sure that as he is questioned, and his plan gets more looks, more of those details will come out. Brilliant move on his part, perhaps. People do have questions and as they look to their own individual situations they are going to want more information.
Redteam, the 9% sales tax applies to “new homes” but not to the purchase of “old homes”. I don’t see how there would be a tax on mortgage because it is built into the purchase price already. If you bought a new house and pay $2000 per month mortgage t pay that loan– then you wouldn’t pay 9% additional on the income you use to pay that mortgage payment. I don’t think you would pay tax on rent because I don’t see how that would be considered purchasing a “new product”. I do think there would be a sales tax on food purchase (but, I haven’t heard anything one way or the other).
Herman Cain: 21 Things You Don’t Know About Him
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/10/05/Herman-Cain-21-Things-You-Dont-Know-About-Him.aspx#page1
They left a lot of things off the list (I’m reading his book now and enjoying it).
Cain was also President of the “Glee Club” at Moorehouse College. I see youth votes coming his way. LOL!
Uh-OH! “999” chants at Occupy La?
http://biggovernment.com/adavid/2011/10/16/capitalist-confronts-occupyla/
(999 chants are around 7:16)
Let’s give it time, but I see a lot of upside to Herman Cain as the republican nominee.
And, if you haven’t read Robyn of Berkeley’s latest article about who can beat obama at americanthinker.com, ITS A MUST READ.
Frogg1 says:
October 17, 2011 at 3:01 am
Uh-OH! “999? chants at Occupy La?
—
They’re really saying “no-no-no!” in German…
Or maybe they’re trying sing the full version of the Beatles’ “Revolution #9″…
Who knows?
By the way – one of the UP sides of the #Occupy movement is that the participants are tied up protesting at their rallies rather than teaching our kids in public schools…
In my above anaylsis I forgot to mention don’t forget to subtract the cost to you of your tax preparerer, accountants may not like this feature, but the rest of us should.