Jun 25 2007
Immigration Bill Prediction
If the immigration Bill is going to pass the cloture vote we know it will be close. I am not sure which way it will go but I think it will pass the cloture 62-37 27. The 37 27 opposed will be mostly the GOP deadenders. If it passes this test it will go through the amendment process and we shall see what flavor of sausage comes out the back end. I still think it has a chance to succeed, which is why the Amnesty Hypochondriacs are in a lather again. It is this or nothing for ten years. So either they lose and America wins some progress or they win and we are stuck with the same old mess for a lont time to come. I think it is sinking in on everyone there are not any more shots at this for some time to come. The perfect bill is not coming to save the day…..
And Rasmussen is push polling this issue. The majority of Americans support the different parts of the bill, but according to Gallup only 18% are paying a lot of attention and most of them are fanatics who would not support any bill. In other words, the majority does not have a strong opinion one way or the other.
It is just that most people do not feel they know enough to make a decision. I have posted this link before I will do so again.
But I frankly wonder about a lot of the polling on this issue, especially from Rasmussen. BTW, their internals showed that 65% would support a compromise bill.
But hey, we can play with polls all day. It is interesting how we believe the polls as if they were oracles when they say what we want to hear, but dismiss them as propaganda when they don’t.
This is the link I was talking about, read all the way to the Bottom Line and that explains my earlier comment.
But if the bill passes and none of the horrid things happen that the hardliners swear will happen, then they will look like hypochondriacs.
I hope so. That is what we should have been doing all along. And I’ll join you in keeping the pressure on my own senators to enforce the laws.
Terrye: once again, you are over the top, out of line, and out of touch on this issue!
Amazing….
Your blinders on support of this bill, is as perplexing as AJ’s, and there is no need for it, that’s the crazy part!
Additionally, the things you state in your comments, are so falacious, it’s not even funny!
No one here, including Bikerken, LE nor any of the others, including me, have tried to bully you, intimidate you, etc., in fact, it’s just the OTHER WAY AROUND!
And you STILL don’t get it!
It’s almost as if there is sometype of synaptic disconnect!
Amazing, totally amazing!
Uh, Civics 101: Executive branch enforces, not Congress. ; )
Terrye, do you even have a clue as to what the laws became about hiring illegals under Simpson-Mazzoli?
And if this bill fails, I encourage you to contact your elected representatives and DEMAND that they force the administration to enforce our current laws.
What disinformation as we, who are against this bill, spreading, Terrye? We have quoted the text of the bill, which you admitted you never read except parts on a blog, yet you defend a bill which you have never taken the time to read.
Since you don’t seem to have a clue (perhaps you could get one of your ex-liberal friends to buy you one) about how a bill is designed, this bill was never vetted in committee. Never. It was designed in the back rooms of the Senate by Kennedy and Gang and they attempted to shove it down the throats of the rest of the Senate without full disclosure.
Instead of worrying about what a dictionary says, perhaps you should read the writings of Thomas Jefferson on immigration. But then, we know you are so much smarter than Thomas Jefferson, right?
Everyone says “enforce the laws” but there really aren’t any “laws” to enforce. They are mainly regulations of various agencies. For example, someone can enter this country, get a taxpayer id number and go to work. They can pay all their legitimate taxes (and many do). The only thing improper about their being here is the immigration status. Many have been here for decades and raised families here, pay their taxes, aren’t criminals, aren’t on welfare, and their kids are US citizens.
Their being allowed to stay or not is most likely a judgment call from whoever is presiding over an immigration hearing if they are caught. They aren’t a threat to the country, they are an asset to the economy, they probably attend worship services more often than most Americans, and some mechanism should be found that allows people in that category to stay.
Dale, you responded to my question…the next question is…
how much of your suggestions are already in this bill?
Crosspatch, you don’t think there are any laws to enforce? Laws that say being in the United States without permission is unlawful? Where in the hell do you think the term “illegal” comes from?
I know you amnesty pimps have tried to change the terminology from illegal to undocumented because it has a feel good sound, but I suggest you read Simpson-Mazzoli and tell me there are no laws already on the books.
How far are you amnesty pimps willing to stretch the truth?
Aj
I hope you are right. I am very nervous to say the least. IF it gets 60 I intend to buy the bar a round of drinks one me.
IF it doesn’t the GOP better try to save as much hispanic votes as they can get or it will not be pretty next November. Of course I am sure that the same folks will be screaming about advertising anything toward the hispanic community or God Forbid in Spanish
Biglsufan, I suggest that if this bill passes, you save your money instead of buying a round. You are going to need it when your taxes go up to support your schools who have to now provide teachers for students that don’t speak English, funds for your local hospital because the ER is being overwhelmed with non-paying patients and the extra firefighters and police that will be needed.
And why should ANY sign, advertising, campaign ad or anything else be in Spanish? Do you think the French are busting their asses to provide signs in English? How about Brazil? Or Columbia? We are an English speaking nation. To be a citizen, it is already required for the applicant to have a working knowledge of reading, writing and speaking English.
Maybe your goal is to see this nation lose everything that we have worked for the last 200 years, like from many, ONE, but I am not. I don’t want to have to learn Spanish, or any other language, to be able to shop in my own country. I don’t want to have to learn another language to be able to vote in my own nation.
If you think a nation can be a united nation when it has dual languages, just take a look at the problems in Canada.
Amnesty-phobes,
You folks are doing your best to alienate the Hispanics. Go ahead and kill the Republican Party. Just be prepared to live with the consequences.
Hi, Retire05, what makes you think this bill will cater to the illegals?
Lurker: None, that I can tell! Not the way I phrase it, set it out, and would implement it!
“Biglsufan, I suggest that if this bill passes, you save your money instead of buying a round. You are going to need it when your taxes go up to support your schools who have to now provide teachers for students that don’t speak English, funds for your local hospital because the ER is being overwhelmed with non-paying patients and the extra firefighters and police that will be needed.”
Retire05 the illegals are already here. They have already been partially assimilated into the economy. WHt you see is what you largely get. Oh and also under the bill many people will be deported. People trying to eneter the US after the bill is enacted cant even enter the US on a tourist visa. Expect the problem to decrease not increase
“And why should ANY sign, advertising, campaign ad or anything else be in Spanish? Do you think the French are busting their asses to provide signs in English? How about Brazil? Or Columbia? We are an English speaking nation. To be a citizen, it is already required for the applicant to have a working knowledge of reading, writing and speaking English.”
It is good politics and good outreach. We have done it forever in this Country and the Republic is standing. Bush ran a heavy dose of Spanish media adds and gained 7.4 percent. HE talked about conservative programs and advocated for them.
“Maybe your goal is to see this nation lose everything that we have worked for the last 200 years, like from many, ONE, but I am not. I don’t want to have to learn Spanish, or any other language, to be able to shop in my own country. I don’t want to have to learn another language to be able to vote in my own nation.
If you think a nation can be a united nation when it has dual languages, just take a look at the problems in Canada. ”
THis isnt Canada. You are not going to have to learn another language tp go shop. If there is too much spanish in a store and it offends go elesewhere. That is what is great about the market
Yes, biglsufan, they are here. That is OUR argument. That nothing, absolutely nothing, has been to stop the invasion our nation has experienced. But I am sure you don’t like the word “invasion”. Prefer the most PC correct term “migration” I am sure.
For years, we in the border states have been screaming “enforce the damn laws” but it was considered a border state problem, no big deal to those in Pennslyvania or New Jersey. But the invasion continued and bled to those states and now they’re saying they are tired of footing the bill for people who have no right to be here.
We are a nation of laws. And we are a republic. That sets us apart from the rest of the world.
This bill does one thing; it eliminates illegals by making them legal. What a concept. Surely Teddy Kennedy thought that one up while sitting in his gated compound at Hyannisport. Can we do that will all other criminals? If we just make murder legal, then there will be no more murderers. That is the concept behind the McCain-Kyl-Kennedy-Bush bill.
oh, my god! the whole country is a bunch of hypochondriacs!
the latest rasmussen poll, via macsmind:
“As the Senate prepares to resume debate the “comprehensive†immigration reform bill, the legislation continues to face broad public opposition. In fact, despite a massive White House effort, public opinion has barely moved since the public uproar stalled the bill just over two weeks ago.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 22% of American voters currently favor the legislation. That’s down a point from 23% a couple of weeks ago and down from 26% when the debate in the Senate began. Fifty percent (50%) oppose the Senate bill while 28% are not sure.
Among the public, there is a bi-partisan lack of enthusiasm for the Senate bill. It is supported by 22% of Republicans, 23% of Democrats, and 22% of those not affiliated with either major party. It is opposed by 52% of Republicans, 50% of Democrats, and 48% of unaffiliateds.
From an ideological perspective, the bill is opposed by 59% of conservatives, 54% of liberals, and 45% of political moderates. Among those for whom none of the traditional ideological labels apply, just 20% are opposed.
Support is found from 20% of conservatives, 32% of liberals, and 18% of moderates.
Just 32% believe it would be better to pass the current bill instead of doing nothing. Forty-five percent (45%) believe it would be better to pass nothing at all.â€
Re: the comment about “no issue with illegals”…I was being facetious. Sorry!
I don’t believe in deporting 12 millions from this country. I do believe that the illegal “criminals” should either remain in our prisons or be deported. Imprisoning these illegal criminals may be a better alternative to deportation; however, we will be paying for their stay in prison.
I don’t agree with the other side either as they are promoting the new North American Unity. Unfortunately, if this bill does not pass, then the only solution to this problem may be “North American Unity” under US constitution, amendments, and BOR.
As for the Trent Lott types, the North American Unity may be the only choice in eliminating cheap labor IF this bill does not pass. Texas and one other state have laws that does not require us to join unions so why not make this a federal law? Hah! Won’t pass, especially with the Democratic promise of eliminating secret votes.
I don’t like illegal immigrants getting free medicare, free education, et al.
Ok, to go through your list. Everything looks do-able but:
a) Utilizing the Laws that already ARE on the books, and Enforce the Border, and I mean, ENFORCE IT
I agree but how? Why aren’t existing laws being enforced? Lack of money and resources or what? Congress not interested because illegal immigrants add to the economic picture?
b) Enforce Workplace verification laws
Ok…I agree, too…this requires the development of a database product with wrappers, et al. Exactly what would be verified?
c) Quadruple the Border Guard, and actually Build the damn Fence
I agree. Quadrupling the Border Guard with guns and ammunition, too. And do not arrest border patrol that are doing their jobs. Provide a IA process to review each and every incident without having to arrest everyone. Of course, this is costly, too.
A physical fence will certainly help trickling down the flow of illegals entering our own country. It will force the majority of future immigrants to legal status AND minimize the entrance of illegal arms into our country. Virtual fence may still be needed for visual verification and investigation.
d) Double the personnel in the INC or whatever it is called these days?
Someone on Brit Hume show said that the State Department is desperately asking for resources to help reduce the backlog of passport applications along with benefits. Good luck. So why are they having problems hiring people?
e) and then, do this:
Tell EVERY ILLEGAL, to come forward, and get a Tamper-Proof Biometric ID Card, as well as Tamper Proof Biometric SSN number.
Make sure that ALL Employers are tied into a central DB, for checking Verifiable SSN’s; and that there is a $100,000 Fine, PER INCIDENT, of Hiring ILLEGALS!
Give EVERY ILLEGAL that card, and it is a “Right to work Cardâ€; with it, they can seek Legal Employment in the US!
What about those elderly asking for asylum? What about those unable to work asking for asulum?
A centralized data base? Then we’re asking for RPFs to build such a data base. Do-able but costing. RPFs are not cheap either.
All do-able.
I’m really confused as to why this bill is considered an amnesty to 12 millions when they would’ve had to pay fines and all. I also have read that if this bill does not pass, then we will see a rising number of illegals into our country.
Again, what are the differences between existing laws and this bill? Why can’t existing laws be enforced? Because Congress never allocated funds to get existing laws enforced?
More on Dale’s post:
I agree…but how do we get these people to go back to their country of origin once their cards have expired? Ok, then our government should not grant SS benefits, welfare, food stamps, etc. They shouldn’t even get cheaper college tuition either!!
I agree….all do-able. Costly, though. Do we already have existing but
unenforceable laws about this?
Will we have the resources to track down each and every one of those whose cards have expired and deport them?
I don’t mind giving them IDs but no benefits and US citizenship. I thought that this bill does not grant illegal immigrants immediate US citizenship? That they would have to go to the end of some line to apply for US citizenship and that they would have to pay a hefty price?