May 24 2007
America Ready For Immigration Reform
The hard right is self destructing on the immigration issue just as the Dems self destructed on the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Americans may not be happy with the current situation in either case. But they are not ready to surrender Iraq or punish those workers here in the US doing nothing more than making a living without proper papers. And it is showing in the polls (as I predicted it would):
As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.
…
Point by point, large majorities expressed support for measures contained in the legislation that has been under debate since Monday in the Senate. The nationwide telephone poll did not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself, but there were questions about its most significant provisions. It was conducted May 18 to 23 with 1,125 adults, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
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Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who have a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes: by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.
Two Thirds! That makes it two-to-one for the Bush plan. Does anyone on the far right grasp the meaning here? There is no ground swelling against Bush. But if the far right keeps throwing invectives and hyperventilating at those they disagree with they will tarnish THEIR standing in this country for a long, long time to come.
Two-thirds of Americans in the survey favored creating a guest worker program for future immigrants. The bill would create a temporary worker program in which immigrants would come for three stints of two years each, going home for one year between each stint and returning home for good after the third.
As I have been warning it is only a question of whether the far right can lose gracefully or will continue to go down the path of losing ugly – and repelling the rest of the nation in the process. It is over folks. It was over when the GOP House played games and highjacked progress on this issue, and then went on to lose Congress. We, America, are ready for change on this matter. We are not interested in anger or perfection in some fantasy world. I wish the right would wake up, but I am not holding my breath anymore. I am not waiting for sanity from the talking heads and DC power brokers on either side. Enough of hot heads. Time for hot ideas.
R05,
Sorry not interested in your little game. Please explain how you folks will explain to the next victims of a repear offender immigrant (legal or illegal) why you tried to stop law enforcement from being given the tools to try and boot repeat offenders.
The first life taken because of the far right’s acts will settle the question of who was for protecting America and who rationalized wildly to allow the status quo to continue.
Checkmate (as usual).
AJ you wrote:
Comically, those pushing the horror stories of crimes by immigrants (legal and illegal) keep pushing more people to support this bill because the status quo is relfected in the stories – the fix is in the bill in the Senate. I would point out the hypocrisy of using crime stories to claim this bill is bad…
What is your source that supports this claim?
Then you wrote:
But what\’s the point? The 33% against this bill are far left and far right partisans who have lost all reason and just complain about the rest of us not buying their logic. Logic dictates 66 is twice as big as 33.
Where are you getting the 33% against the bill. Rasmussen says only 26% support the legislation currently before the Senate. The NYT poll did NOT ask about support for THE actually Bill.
Rasmussen wrote:
The New York Times/CBS News did not specifically ask about the immigration bill currently being considered in the Senate. However, in the article written about the poll, the Times states “large majorities expressed support for measures contained in the legislation.â€
AJ you wrote: Comically, those pushing the horror stories of crimes by immigrants (legal and illegal) keep pushing more people to support this bill because the status quo is relfected in the stories – the fix is in the bill in the Senate. I would point out the hypocrisy of using crime stories to claim this bill is bad…
Then you wrote: Please explain how you folks will explain to the next victims of a repear offender immigrant (legal or illegal) why you tried to stop law enforcement from being given the tools to try and boot repeat offenders.
Is using Phantom “victims” to claim this bill should be passed any different?
Please explain how you folks will explain to the next victims of a repear offender immigrant (legal or illegal) why you tried to stop law enforcement from being given the tools to try and boot repeat offenders.
I think the explanation will be, we tried to get the borders secured and keep these people out, but a lot of people, perhaps through being mislead, thought this new bill would help deport people, but alas, what we found out right after it got signed, was that it, in fact, gave all them lawyers at taxpayer expense that got them all turned loose. We have never been successful at deporting felons, and now with this new law, they have even more rights than they did. Even more than US citizens. Ah yes, the devil is in the details.
no one has been able to demonstrate what in this bill would help boot repeat offenders, but it is easy to demonstrate what will not help.
.
,
Opps forgot to add this.
You wrote:
The first life taken because of the far right’s acts will settle the question of who was for protecting America and who rationalized wildly to allow the status quo to continue.
Checkmate (as usual).
Again, I ask: Is using Phantom “victims†to claim this bill should be passed any different? Also, is using phantom “deaths” to claim this bill should be passed any different?
Checkmate – Really??????
One strike and you’re out?? Out of what? The US? Big deal, they’ll be back next week with a new name. By the way, the libs are already trying to gut the biometric ID card. That’s why border security has to be done first. None of this bill means anthing without it. If this bill is passed, the illegals will instantly become legal and that is about as much of any of it that will actually be done! And I think that is exactly what the proponents want, legalized anarchy in the immigration system! This is the globalists dream, no borders, no countries, after all, we are all alike and we all want the same things, isn’t that true? If so, why don’t you proponents go stay in Mexico? I have a feeling, it would change your mind dramatically.
AJ, just what clause in this bill is going to protect us from the Angel Resendez’s of this nation? Here we are, five and a half years out from 9-11 and law enforcement is still not on the same wave length. That is why santuary cities are allowed to continue to function. In my own area, when local law enforcement would call ICE, they were told just to release the illegals. We had in our county jail, at one time, over 100 illegals. ICE refused to take custody of them and told the county sheriff to just let them go.
You never answer any of my questions. Is there a reason for that? Is it because you don’t like the answers or just don’t have the answers? This bill is like signing the dotted line to buy a house but you don’t know how much it costs, what the selling price is and how much your payments are going to be. Would you be willing to do that because that is what you are asking us to do using the excuse “well, at least you now own a home”. That is not only bad business, it is absolute stupidity.
Do you agree with the parts that:
reduces the size of the wall by over half?
require the U.S. to gain Mexican permission to build the wall?
grant amnesty for all back taxes?
allows the theft of Social Security numbers and other I.D. without consequences?
grants in state tuition to all illegals?
provides for the requirement of “prevaling wage” to illegals but not to American citizens?
only allows 24 hours for a background check, when that may require cooperation with a foreign nation, before being granted a work permit?
releases all those currently in the system who are on the deportation track?
grants all social welfare services to those who have now been made legal?
allows those who entered illegal to continue to work while those who have applied for legal entry continue to wait in their native lands (how does that put them to the back of the line?)?
prevents employers from taking into consideration a person’s legal status by using the threat of being sued for discrimination?
fully vesting illegals in the Social Security system after only 4 quarters when legal Americans have to pay into the system for 40 quarters?
If you really want to argue your rationale for adopting this bill, you should be willing to give answers to these questions.
The Coalition for Comprehensive Immigration Reform is now providing a direct line (in Spanish) to those pushing for the legalization of 12-20 million law breakers. Why it this only in Spanish and how did they manage to override the standard procedure for calling Senators? And if this is not just about Mexican illegal immigration, why is the recording on the phone number not in Cantonese, Gaelic, Hebrew, German, French and Polish? And take a guess who just poured $4. million into this organization; none other that George Soros of the open-border crowd.
Perhaps there are some good things about this bill, but the fact is, the bad outweighs the good. It will be a financial nighmare for the American taxpayer.
If you were willing to argue the good against the bad, you would come off better. But you seem to be unwilling to address the problems in this bill with the excuse “it is the best we can do”. You say that to a nation who put a man on the moon and invented the tomatoe harvester. 60% of all illegals have less than a high school edcuation. Who will support those newly minted legals?
I think somewhere you have a personal stake in this. I don’t know what it is, nor do I care. But you, on this one issue, are wrong.
AJ, Do you have some sort of personal stake in this? I mean, without invading your private life, is there something that mainly influences your opinion on this? If so, why not state it? It sure would make more sense to debate from that point than to come up with these cryptic evassive responses. Do you have an illegal nanny, gardner or close family member who you sympathize with or is it some kind of business concern? Are you invested in some kind of business that makes a lot of money off cheap labor? I don’t mind telling you that it is very personal with me.
My nephew lives in Tucson and he has been forced out of his own school because of the violence perpetrated upon him by schoolmates who are over 80% mexicans. They hate him because he is a gringo and the only one in his class. Now he is being home schooled. His neighborhood sounds like a marachi shooting club at night. They hate Americans because they think that Mexico still owns the southwest US and we are the interlopers. In general, and I will generalize and anticipate being called a racist, they are rude, drunk and violent and have no problem helping themselves to whatever they can scam from government assistance programs. What would you expect to come from a lawless country? Expecting them to follow the rules in any kind of a legal program is way beyond naive!
I have seen neighborhoods around San Diego, which was one of the finest cities in this country, turn into bullet ridden barrios. Just last week I walked out the door to find graffitti all over our complex sidewalks and I live in one of the nicer parts of this town. That makes my blood boil. This is not immigration, this is invasion, and just turning the other cheek is not good enough for me!
While that may not be politically correct, every word is true.
Here’s just a little sample of what’s right on the other side of that border that some of you want to erase.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/183500
Bikerken,
Recall me saying hyperventilating destroys credibility? Where did anyone say erase the border???? Kiss your cred good-bye.
Bikerken,
Regarding you getting personal (note that I see comments latest to oldest in reverse order from them on the posts) – get a life. I have no stake. What I have is a coldly objective view of this issue and the self destruction of the GOP hardliners. Period. Why do you keep proving my points? You got stake in making Cons look bad?
Hyperventilating? Simply accuratly describing a real life situation is hyperventilating? Do you think that I am making this up or simply over-reacting to something that I should just take in stride? What color is the sky in your world? This is the reality buddy! You have destroyed your credibility with this issue, not me! Because you never respond to intelligent relevant questions, you only attack the messenger. And so far as I have seen, pretty much everything makes the cons look bad in your eyes, but I have rarely every heard you spew the same venom at the left. Hmmmmm. Why is that AJ? I know you claim to be a reformed dem and now an independant, but why are you always hacking up the GOP? If there is any real reason for repubs to pick a bone with them, it’s for not doing what we sent them there to do!
Bikerken, the hyperventilating was on the comment about removing borders and I was clear. Why do you follow your vents with more vents? Cred? gone.
Where did anyone say erase the border????
I guess I don’t see the difference in erasing it or just plain ignoring it.
This Senate Amnesty bill ignores it, or makes it totally meaningless. same thing.
If any credibility is gone, it is with the people that wrote this Amnesty first bill.
Wonder why it is the ‘hardliners’ (better known as people that want the laws enforced) are the ones that will lose.. They only lose if it passes, same as everyone. This is a no win bill,for Americans. If it doesn’t pass, it’s the hardliners fault and the Dimmycrats get credit for trying. If it does pass the Dimmycrats get credit for overpowering the Repubs. But when the truth gets known, it’s the blame fixing they’ll all be trying to avoid. I don’t see any winners in this, unless it doesn’t pass (well of course the illegals win if it passes) Then the American citizens are winners.
Border, what border? This bill does away (for all practical purposes) with the border. Anyone will be allowed to come and go as they please. Anyone hampered in that will just be appointed a US lawyer at US expense to make it all better (for the formerly illegals).
No one actually DEFENDS the particulars in the bill, they just say it is good, but for some reason can’t say why. The answer to that is obvious….
,
Guys, Guys, Give it up! AJ is lost in his own sheltered world.
This was a “Push Poll” They did not even ask about THIS BILL in the poll.
The only way he will see the light is when a repeat Illegal does bodily harm to him or his family. I hope that never happens and he stays in a state of Vegitation.
I think he is stuck on CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes, AP, etc.
I’ve tried to get him to read Books, as authors generaly spend a year or so researching this topic. But he wont. Throw in the towel guys.
Stevevvs,
try and show some class when you lose a debate. I read – I am just not led.
For Enforcement, he won’t answer my questions either.
Here is what confounds me. How can someone who recognizes the threat that radical Islam poses to this country, and who is a strong proponent for the war against terror, be so vehemently opposed to those of us who simply want to see our own borders secured first???
Don’t those two things just naturally go together?
Radical Islam is a threat, but I disagree with all of you who want to see our borders secured first. Huh??? How does that make sense?
X-ray Granny’s shoes and subject her to a medal detector, a possible wanding and pat down, but don’t worry about securing our borders. It leaves me almost completely speechless.
I just don’t get that. I don’t get that at all.
The proponents of this bill act as if it is horrible to hold the position that you would like to see the bill put on hold until the border gets secured. Why…. that’s preposterous!! That’s crazy talk!! You radical, racist hardliner you!!
Can someone, anyone, explain to me what harm would come from first securing our border and then addressing the problem of what to do with the illegals already in the Country? Please. I mean that sincerely. I don’t understand the opposing point of view.
We all agree this is a big problem. That’s probably the only singular point on which everyone agrees. Doesn’t it make sense to secure the border first, and prevent the problem from getting even BIGGER, while we debate the other details? That seems like such a common sense course of action that I am at a complete loss understanding how anyone could possibly disagree with that.
ApacheIP
Apache,
How can someone concerned about terrorists waste limited resources deporting hotel maids? Duh! Now you can’t say I never answer your questions.
Apache, I don’t get it either, the logic is akin to saying, “I’m all for throwing rocks of the tops of tall buildings, but I’m dead set against them hitting the ground.”