May 24 2007
America Ready For Immigration Reform
The hard right is self destructing on the immigration issue just as the Dems self destructed on the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Americans may not be happy with the current situation in either case. But they are not ready to surrender Iraq or punish those workers here in the US doing nothing more than making a living without proper papers. And it is showing in the polls (as I predicted it would):
As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.
…
Point by point, large majorities expressed support for measures contained in the legislation that has been under debate since Monday in the Senate. The nationwide telephone poll did not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself, but there were questions about its most significant provisions. It was conducted May 18 to 23 with 1,125 adults, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
…
Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who have a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes: by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.
Two Thirds! That makes it two-to-one for the Bush plan. Does anyone on the far right grasp the meaning here? There is no ground swelling against Bush. But if the far right keeps throwing invectives and hyperventilating at those they disagree with they will tarnish THEIR standing in this country for a long, long time to come.
Two-thirds of Americans in the survey favored creating a guest worker program for future immigrants. The bill would create a temporary worker program in which immigrants would come for three stints of two years each, going home for one year between each stint and returning home for good after the third.
As I have been warning it is only a question of whether the far right can lose gracefully or will continue to go down the path of losing ugly – and repelling the rest of the nation in the process. It is over folks. It was over when the GOP House played games and highjacked progress on this issue, and then went on to lose Congress. We, America, are ready for change on this matter. We are not interested in anger or perfection in some fantasy world. I wish the right would wake up, but I am not holding my breath anymore. I am not waiting for sanity from the talking heads and DC power brokers on either side. Enough of hot heads. Time for hot ideas.
No AJ. You still haven’t any of the questions I posed in this thread. Not a single one.
All you did was raise a new question. You didn’t answer any question that I asked.
And when you posed this new question of yours, you bring up “deporting hotel maids”. What the heck is that? You ask me some silly question about deportation? I haven’t posted anything about deportation. Where the heck did that question come from, and why was it directed at me?
If you truly want to answer a question, please explain what harm would come from first securing our border while we debate what to do with the illegals already here.
Or you could answer this question –
If this is such a BIG problem, doesn’t it make sense to stop the problem from getting BIGGER (by securing the border) while we have a calm and rational debate about the all of the other details?
ApacheIP
Apache,
You recall my posts about the minority hard right being irrelevant now???? Did you think I was kidding?
Oh, I see. Rather than answer a simple question, you would prefer to sling insults. Thereby alienating someone who is attempting to have a polite and rational debate with you.
That isn’t very mature of you. Now I am reminded of why I quit posting here a long time ago. This was your style back then as well.
I posed what I thought were polite, intelligent, and reasonable questions. I have steadfastly refused to engage in name calling. Despite all of the name calling (“hardliners”, “minority”, “irrelevant”, etc…) by yourself and those who share your opinion, I attempted to be civil and respectful at all times.
And, once again, your response was void of any substantive thought and completely inflammatory.
This has proven itself to be a perfect exercise in futility. Good bye again. Maybe in a year or so I might check back in. I hope the quality of the debate and civility improve during my absence.
So long all.
ApacheIP
I am not slinging insults. I am being honest. You have free reign here to post your views. That is a courtesy I offer my readers. But the far right is out of power on this and those of us who want reform are not displeased with that fact. Sorry if you cannot take an honest answer.
BTW,
All the politeness in the world can’t help your arguments. My positions are clear and written many times here. I cannot repeat them every time someone asks me the same question for the millionth time. You may find this insulting as well. Sorry about that.
AJ
From reading the bill and online commentary about it, can you explain why this is a bipartisan bill, when all the positions advanced by the dems go into effect on the day of passage but all the positions valid to the reps are delayed for 8 years prior to implementation?
Read the bill it details it.
David Limbaugh David Limbaugh WND Commentary Why aren’t Republicans crying?
Posted: May 25, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Republican proponents of the so-called “compromise,” “comprehensive” immigration bill argue the legislation is palatable because it includes important concessions to accommodate conservatives’ concerns. But the more I read about the measure, the more apparent it becomes that it is neither a compromise nor comprehensive and that any concessions offered by Democrats are illusory.
Proponents tout the bill as comprehensive because it allegedly deals with all aspects of the knotty immigration problem, including enforcement, security, immigration-related labor, employment and business issues, the rule of law and even assimilation concerns.
Democrats definitely get what they want: an ever expanding new voter constituency and a lasting supply of fodder for self-congratulation for helping people with other people’s money – but what about Republicans?
(Column continues below)
If the concessions promised conservatives never materialize, there’s no compromise and no comprehensiveness, just a sophisticated bait-and-switch scam to lure unteachable Republicans – and possibly the nation – into suicide.
One unmistakable sign the bill offers Republicans little is that Ted Kennedy cannot wipe the smile off his face. Why shouldn’t he be smiling?
Let’s consider the sources of his elation.
First, he gets most of what he wants now – instant gratification – while deferring provisions designed to gratify conservatives until much later. As we know, deferred gratification often leads to no gratification, especially where government is the supposed gratifying agent and Democrats are an integral part of the government.
Remember when Bush 41 voluntarily walked the political plank by reneging on his no-new-taxes pledge in exchange for promises of spending cuts from Democrats, only to have them not only renege but excoriate him for compromising with them in the first place and breaking his pledge? Remember how Democrats supported the Iraq war resolution, then betrayed President Bush, saying they never intended to give him unconditional authority to attack Iraq, even though the resolution did precisely that?
Remember the last time the government promised that giving amnesty to illegals would deter future immigration problems? Remember when the government allocated money for a border fence – yet has only completed some two miles of it? Fool me once, shame on you …
National Review Online notes that one thing Kennedy and his colleagues will get immediately is that illegal immigrants will become eligible for “probationary” legal status the moment the bill passes, which is exacerbated by the fact the government will have only one business day to run a background check on such applicants. Columnist Thomas Sowell points out that even if the bill’s requirements on illegals are “tough,” which Sowell clearly doubts, the bill does nothing to address those among the 12 million who simply choose not to become citizens and thus avoid the “tough” requirements.
But more disturbing than either of these points are certain revelations of National Review Online contributing editor Stanley Kurtz, which further explain and remove any ambiguity from Ted Kennedy’s ear-splitting grin.
One sop to conservatives in the bill is that it supposedly replaces family-based immigration – which has led to uncontrollable inflows – with a merit-based point system that will both make the immigration flow more manageable and improve immigrant assimilation.
But according to Kurtz, not only is this shift toward merit-based immigration very unlikely to happen under the legislation, in the meantime, the bill will tilt the current system even more heavily toward family-based immigration by awarding “75 percent of new green cards” – it’s currently 60 percent – “to family members to clear existing backlogs.”
Since the shift to the merit system is deferred – like other positive aspects of the bill – for eight years, immigration advocates would have eight years to “gut” the merit system.
In case you doubt Kennedy and his ilk are inclined to “gut” the promised merit system, Kurtz emphasizes that all stars are lining up in that direction: Hillary Clinton is pushing an amendment now to reinstitute the family-based system, Speaker Pelosi has signaled her desire to revisit (and reverse) the merit-based provision soon, and American employers – of all stripes – seem united against the merit system and, indeed, helped to defeat a similar promised reform a little more than a decade ago.
Doesn’t it strike you as ironic, not to mention utterly maddening, that the only immigration issue truly demanding urgent action – enforcement – is the only one that will be put on the back burner (or completely off the stove), while other non-urgent aspects will be addressed posthaste?
We can’t ask them to pay their back taxes because that would be too hard, even though they are supposed to document their work history to apply for the program, and yet we have the documagic to validate withing 24 hours their legalization status.
Yeah sure I got all that.
With chain immigration swelling the numbers of somewhere between 12 to 20 millions depending on whose numbers you use it gets bumped up to 40 to 80 million under this bill and then how do you reverse that fiasco if this bill is proven to be a lost cause?
If you can’t deport 12 what to heck are you gonna do when it’s up to 80?
Oh and AJ
The poll you are quoting has been moved around and other blogs are commenting on how it was hidden for hours today and then stealth resurfaced.
The background crosstabs behind the poll reveal some interesting loadings and bias factors
The poll was overloaded with dems and also overloaded with black americans.
Many blogs are question the methodology behind the poll and especially how the questions were framed.
Merlin,
2-1 for the plan is too much even for marginal biases. Might move the numbers 5% – max. Simple math.
8. Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the issue of immigration?
Disapprove – 60%
Approve – 27%
It is a 2-1 ratio. 2-1 against the President.
page 8
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20070525poll.pdf
ApacheIP