Dec 13 2006
Some Litvinenko Thoughts
The news on Litvinenko’s death and the Polonium-210 trail has succumbed to the moder Ripper news, so obviously something very quiet is being done behind the scenes or the trail is growing cold. I think it is the former because this quick response by the Germans in response to some possible evidence that Kovtun made a phone call from Berlin during his period in Germany between Moscow and his trip to meet Lugovoi and Litvinenko in London.
I meant to note I find the constantly shifting stories by Lugovoi and Kovtun to be a clear sign they new full well they have been in contact with radiactive material. The tanning salon excuse is just pathetic. I also find their pointing to Oct 16th as possible contamination point telling as well. They knew that their illnesses were due to Polonium 210, but they only realized their problem after Litvinenko fell ill and died. Up until they could not hide the truth anymore (i.e., they needed medical attention) they tried to divert suspicion using one lame excuse after another. But they knew it was Polonium 210.
Add this the fact Berezovsky’s mouthpiece Goldfarb went out of his way to dismiss any idea that Lugovoi and Kovtun could have been involved in the assassination effort and one can see he too was trying to divert attention from them as culprits in Litvinenko’s death. When in reality they represented the best lead to Putin and Russia as part of an assassination effort. Why would Berezovsky/Goldfarb go out of there way to publically vouch for the best supporting evidence of a Russian assassination plot to ever surface? Diversion. Only when it became clearly obvious that Lugovoi was ill did Goldfarb go silent again.
Finally, the delay in questioning Lugovoi could easily be seen as negotiations for a plea agreement. Lugovoi has been giving the public perception he is working for investigators on this case, and investigators are not out denying anything. We still have this mysterious fourth contaminated hotel out there, and we have police backing away from the poisoned tea cup theory. I would not be surprised if within a few days we see some sweeping actions by authorites. Then again, I would not be surprised to see nothing new happening for days on end as well. My latest musings for all to rip apart at their leisure!
10 Swiss are being sought who stayed in the Millenium – the British gave the list to the Swiss – they are to be tested I guess. The international repercussions keep on growing
If nothing else this thread has sure raised the comment level on this blog.
I realize many read this blog and never comment, but this one has seemed to grab the interest of many.
Clarice I have no equity in either theory of was this smuggling or a kill, my concern is bad stuff for no matter what reason getting into the wild.
Even if you have PO 210 which you know is a component of a nuclear trigger, you still having it in isolation have to possess the other ingredients and know how to put them together to make a workable trigger.
Plus beyond that you have to be trying to work with a weapon that would be 10 to 12 generations behind current technology.
Due to the aging that weapon had to suffer the yield from it’s initial capability would surely be reduced. That is in no way minimizing the issue.
But quiet frankly you could for the dollars spent to make it happen do much more damage with conventional explosives than with old stale weapons with old triggers. The only win out of this would be the pure thought value and the psycho value.
Gotta Know,
I think your smuggling hypothesis makes more sense. But it also can be a kind of “awareness training” a la “anthrax scare”. So all the nessesary measures to make dirty bomb plot more difficult are now on the table with full support of the public and that result alone worth some burned candles.
The problem with “Colonel Putin” hypothesys is that is does not survive “who benefits” test. Russian goverment already got a huge kick in the face even without any results of the investigation. Any no results of investigation will ever change that. Damage is already done.
Carefully used Po can kill someone and leave no trace rather than unexpected leukemia. And in the hands of terrorism, this is possibly one of the worst poisons one could imagine. The smallest container could contain enough to poison thousands of people, probably more, if deviously used.
Likbez, for all Litvinenko was, I can’t see any evidence of a psychopath in him. He seemed too emotional, although you never know. No, I would guess he had a screwed up dopamine system.
PO could be especially bad if used in a military installation in the food for example during a military campagin in, like, for example, Iraq. The entire place could be throwing up and unable to perform duties in a few hours.
Ok, I’ve searched and I find that Lugovoi was a former Major in the FSB. Can anyone find out if the others were that rank? Kovtun in particular.
There is a photo – very blurry – of a possible suspect in the assassination of Anna. I think it looks like Kovtun. I think the jaw lines and pursed mouth are similar. And the man in the CCTV photo has his arms crossed – Kovtun does that frequently.
Here’s the picture.
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/09/is-this-the-russian-journalists-assassin/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmain.jhtml%3Fxml%3D%2Fnews%2F2006%2F10%2F09%2Fwrussia09.xml&frame=true
Compare the pursed lips/jaw.
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/061208/photos_ts/2006_12_08t083257_367x450_us_britain_poisoning_kovtun&g=events/wl/112006poisonedspy
Yeah, but so could fentanyl, and that’s probably cheaper. Enormous Po poisoning (more than Litvinenko got) would kill people in days and they would be completely incapable during that time.
Clarice
I further support your argument that Putin is consolidating control and power in Russia to create a new revival of the bear.
We only put it in hibernation for a while, we did not kill the beast.
He has to strike a balance to move it forward if that is his aim. Overreach is his most dangerous thing to himself.
Even the Imadamnutjob in Iran can fall to doing something the puppet masters don’t like.
Putin still has to convince and get support from all the players or at least enough to make it work.
If not he can get poofed just as fast as anyone else there.
Lots of cards on the tables by all concerned and it seems to be turning into a game of 32 way shuffleboard.
Insight and commitment will make all the difference, but many will be hurt by this passion play.
Enlightened,
Your grap of oil story is very problematic. The main problem here is “rape of Russia” story. You should probably read Klebnikov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov) famous book.
As Anne Williamson’s testimony before the Committee on Banking and Financial Services of the U.S. House of Representatives aptly put it:
“It shows how the historic opportunity given the U.S. to help transform Russia into a free, peaceful, pro-Western country was squandered in the form of a bruising economic rape carried out by corrupt Russian politicians and businessmen, assisted by Bush and (especially) Clinton administrations engaged in political payoffs to Wall Street bankers and others, and by ineptitude and greed on the part of the U.S. Treasury and the Harvard Institute for International Development, assisted by fellow travelers and manipulators at Nordex, the IMF, the World Bank, and the Federal Reserve.
The losers were the Russian people and (mainly) U.S. tax-payers. ”
It’s really sad that Clinton was not impeached and that Bush who have more reasonable approach to this main ally in the fight with terrorism nation is in such trouble.
Gotta Know, I doubt K and L were the same guys in the prior attempt to set up Litvinenko. If they were, why would they bother to continue dealings?
Putin and Poison – too many coincidences
Sasha thwarts a Putin assassination plot. 2003
Putin body guard murdered with similar radioactive poison, in food or drink. 2004
Anna poisoned in tea cup. 2004
Sasha murdered with radioactive poison in tea. 2006
Clarice, thank you…
Enlightened,
“The international community is very concerned with the goings-on in Russia these days, in particular the grab for oil. Yukos, Lukoil and now Shell.”
I recommend you check the facts. You should probably read famous book by Klebnikov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov) about economic rape of Russian in Eltsin time.
Criminals with contacts obtained by bribery are still criminals.
As Anne Williamson’s aptly notes in her testimony before the Committee on Banking and Financial Services of the U.S. House of Representatives:
“It shows how the historic opportunity given the U.S. to help transform Russia into a free, peaceful, pro-Western country was squandered in the form of a bruising economic rape carried out by corrupt Russian politicians and businessmen, assisted by Bush and (especially) Clinton administrations engaged in political payoffs to Wall Street bankers and others, and by ineptitude and greed on the part of the U.S. Treasury and the Harvard Institute for International Development, assisted by fellow travelers and manipulators at Nordex, the IMF, the World Bank, and the Federal Reserve.
The losers were the Russian people and (mainly) U.S. tax-payers.”
It’s really sad that Clinton was not impeached and that Bush who have more reasonable approach to this main ally in the fight with terrorism nation is in such trouble.
Question – to the best of your knowledge (so many links ugh) Have Lugovoi, Kovtun or Sokolenko voiced support for Chechnya? Along the lines of Berezovsky/Zakayev/Litvinenko?
I don’t think L or K were the two from 2003 – Litvinenko would have yelped if they were, only unless circumstances had changed and Sasha wanted those two back in the UK for a reason?
But it appears he did not really know who Sokolenko was? Maybe he was one of them?
why are l&K giving interviews to German media?
From nytimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/world/europe/15spycnd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin):
” In London, a British government scientist who spoke in return for anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters said this week that Mr. Litvinenko ingested too much polonium to be able to survive from mid-October to Nov. 1, as the Russian businessmen suggested.
“He had so much in him, many times the lethal dose,†the scientist said. “He would have felt ill within a few hours†of ingesting it.”
Enlightened,
“The international community is very concerned with the goings-on in Russia these days, in particular the grab for oil. Yukos, Lukoil and now Shell.”
I recommend you check the facts. You should probably read famous book by Klebnikov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov) about economic rape of Russian in Eltsin time. Criminals with contacts obtained by bribes are still criminals.
why are L&K giving interviews to the Germans? Because Lugovoi hasn’t shut up since Day 1 – he gives interviews almost daily to the German media – the Germans are more ‘sympa” to Russians than the English I think – the Russians feel more comfortable with them because of their history with east Germany – that is just a guess on my part. Lugovoy is running a major PR operation (he thinks only of money IMO and the effect of this on his business); he fully expects to survive and wants to ensure the future of his business I guess. Kovtov only jumped on the bandwagon in that one der Spiegel interview (the sunbed interview) and Tuesday when he gave another interview with german Tv.