Jun 24 2012

Crime Scene Proves Zimmerman Covering Up A Different Story

Published by at 12:43 pm under All General Discussions,Trayvon Martin Case

I now understand why the charge against George Zimmerman is Murder 2 and not Manslaughter (as I originally thought would be proper). Whatever happened that night, it is nowhere near what GZ claimed in his numerous and shifting accounts. What I discovered in crime scene photos is undeniable. GZ’s lame attempts to preclude himself being anywhere off the sidewalk “T”  where Zimmermnan says the incident happened has been destroyed. The evidence tells a completely different and irreconcilable story. (note: crime scene photos below the fold)

First, the area in question is best seen by this generated overview of the crime scene (this is not a crime scene photo):

[Click to enlarge all images] The black circle near the intersection of the two  sidewalks (the “T”) is where GZ claims the incident took place, and where with one surprise punch TM knocked GZ down and began beating his head against the side walk. The white circle is very close to where Trayvon’s body was found, as can be seen in this crime scene photo (pulled from here and enhanced).

The body is draped under a yellow plastic cover. Note that the end townhouse has added some kind of dark screen to the back of their home. TM is lying  behind the 2nd townhouse, very close to the white circle above. Here is another view from the sidewalk T:

There is even more evidence detail to come, but we first need to discuss distances. Assuming each town house is (at least) 20 feet wide, and then giving another 15 feet from the first townhouse to the sidewalk, we can compute that TM’s body is (at least) 55 ft away from where GZ claimed the incident occurred. This is no small discrepancy, but really highlights how much GZ did not want to be located down that path. In fact, the lengths he has gone to not be placed down that path are telling, and why his story is a complete crock.

Here is a view looking at the back of the townhouses taken the next day:

Easily 55 feet IMO. One thing to note in this picture are those small, grey cement squares just on the other side of the walk. Those will become very important in assessing the location of key evidence spread from the T to the location of TM’s body.

Again, a small diversion before we dive into the location of evidence that lines up with witness accounts and destroys GZ’s claims of events that night. I just want to note how far away GZ was from the actual crime scene on the day of the reenactment video, when he also exposed how it is physically impossible for him to pull his gun while being pinned down. Here is GZ showing where he wears his holster, and not how he is well away from the actual shooting location. He is behind the first townhouse with the dark screens, just beyond the tree. Still a good 30+ ft from the actual scene, and he had to adjust his original story to get this far down the T.

OK, let’s highlight some items on the second photo where evidence is located. Point A is where police found GZ’s keys with a small flashlight attached and apparently on.

In the detailed picture below is we see the leaf on the walk seen in the long view above.

Way down the path is one of two grocery bags, which I assume at least one was TM’s from the 7-11. I find it interesting Zimmerman loses his keys up near the T, but the shooting happens 50 or so feet further down. That means the altercation was much longer than GZ let on, and it confirms witnesses who heard an argument first with multiple exchanges, saw two people running (one being chased) along the walk, etc. Clearly, GZ’s claim to have been punched and then immediately straddled is bogus.

The tough items to place in the larger scene are GZ’s other flashlight (item 5), the spent bullet casing (item 6) and TM’s phone (item 7).  Here is a picture of the phone along the path near one of those grey cement squares I mentioned previously:

The only hint of where this may be is the grey cement square, and possibly the ring of greening grass around it. Now here are all these items together with the police tags:

 Whats is completely baffling here is the lack of the body in the picture. I checked the police reports and Investigator Serino clearly states that the evidence was photographed and measured for the crime scene sketch before the body was removed by the ME. So it is very odd that the body is not in this image. I can’t prove this, but I believe these items are beyond the body because I cannot see them in any picture between the T and the body.  But I really don’t know where they are. I am certain they are NOT near the T.

This is why the police did not buy GZ’s concocted story. From the moment  he lied and claimed he got out of the car to find a street name (and later house number) – when in fact he got out because TM ran and he went into pursuit, to the lies about not being far off the T intersection when being hit, GZ has been covering up something. And he is doing a piss poor job of it.

I also want to go back to the idea of TM straddling GZ while punching him, and GZ being able to pull his gun. I find that to be a total crock now.

As I noted in the picture above, GZ shows EXACTLY where he wears his gun, in his waistband over his right butt cheek.

As I noted in a previous post, GZ could not be pinning TM’s arm to his side and with the same arm pull a gun. Just not physically possible. When his arm is pinned to his side, GZ cannot reach – let alone pull – the gun in his holster. Moreover, TM could never see the gun with GZ on his back because the gun would be between GZ’s back and the ground! Two impossibilities now!

But wait, there’s more.

As I thought about it I realized there is a 3rd obstacle to GZ pulling his gun while on his back with TM on top of him. See if you can figure it out from this representation:

As anyone can see the person on top will have their knees on either side of the body, blocking access to the waist and the gun, now firmly pinned to the ground. More physics comes into play since now the weight of the person on top is adding to the weight of the person on the bottom, creating a downward force on GZ’s lower torso of probabley over 200 pounds. You are not going to pull a gun from underneath that much weight, with one hand, from a holster (meant to grip the gun), on wet grass A courtroom reenactment will demonstrate the ignorance of GZ’s claims.

Also in GZ ‘s reenactment he claimed he slid down, away from the walk – which caused his jacket to rise and expose the gun. But if GZ was really being straddled, taht kind of move would  push his waist further down between TM’s legs,  making it even harder to snake an arm between the legs, under the back, through the wet grass, to the holster. So as GZ squirms feet-ward, he adds to the barriers blocking his hand from his gun. And the gun should have mud and grass in it from being pulled out.

So what happened that night? My guess is the one whose head exploded was GZ (who is known for a short fuse). I would not be surprised that TM got off one good punch, putting GZ on his butt at the T (thus losing his keys). GZ gets up and with his flashlight in one hand and pulls the gun with his other. At this point TM (who should have run, but is just a kid and likely stood frozen) bolts. GZ races after, now furious he got sucker punched. His red hot anger boiling over.

As they run and tussle down the path the gun is out and at some point they tangle and roll, with GZ on the bottom and TM desperately trying to punch him, all the time yelling help. GZ manages to move the gun into position and shoots TM. The gun was out, because it could not be pulled under the conditions GZ claims. And the only reason to make up such nonsense IS because the gun was out.

This is why GZ avoids the scene in his reenactment. He does not want to go down to the point where his Mr Hyde took over. My guess is the man’s mild mannered demeanor is his Dr Jekyll persona he crafted over the years to control and hide is volatile temper. As has been seen before with him, when GZ snaps he snaps. GZ knows his Mr Hyde took over that night, after the kid got a punch in. And he has been doing and saying anything not to be down that path with his Mr Hyde. To the point of lying to himself and rationalizing why TM was so bad (an extension of previous burglaries) it was OK he died.

I can see now why this is Murder 2. GZ’s story has completely unraveled on him. There will be more evidence to come is my guess. More evidence of an extended brawl that left debris along a 55-50 ft path of confrontation. More evidence that demolishes GZ story, which in turn will convict him for his crime.

36 responses so far

36 Responses to “Crime Scene Proves Zimmerman Covering Up A Different Story”

  1. Mata says:

    Layman, the CVSA tester questions TZ in the video quite thoroughly about just how he was supposed to be getting to his gun and firing. The GZ version of his account ends about 36’57”, so that line of questioning is going to lie somewhere after that. If memory serves me right, it’s somewhere between the 38 and 40 minute marks. You might want to see the interchange. Everyone will walk away with a different perception of credibility of his story of the struggle.

    The “juvenile” language you object to was not AJ’s writing, but that of the blogger at FireDogLake. You won’t find me defending any of them as not juvenile, but to AJ’s credit, he did not edit the full paragraph that blogger used when he was noting that Zimmerman’s story about TM being aware of the gun required Hillary’s “willing suspension of disbelief”. You can’t blame AJ for FDL’s words.

  2. Redteam says:

    mata: “INRE the fight at the tee and the site of death. This remains a continuing problem for GZ. He asserts he was decked and knocked down immediately by TM, yet contends he was standing at the tee and not further south on the path between the rowhouses.”

    yeah and an especially big problem for AJ’s theory. His theory is that TM was running away from GZ and GZ was relentlessly pursuing him and as we all know, TM got somewhere ‘near’ his father’s girl friends apartment. (I realize that to you ‘near’ means on the planet, but to most, it means ‘close by’) Now if, according to theory, GZ pursued TM down that center sidewalk, after the T, then how did the initial attack occur by TM when he punched GZ and broke his nose and GZ lost his keys there, at the T. Because if he had pursued him past the T, but then returned to the T where TM assaulted him, then that means, what? That GZ broke off this relentless pursuit and was returning back toward where he had come from (back to the T). So the initial incident was over, pursuit was over by GZ, pursuit had begun by TM where he overtook GZ and began his attempted murder.
    completely blows AJ’s theory out of the water.

    and mata: using my preschool legal courses, I’d say that TM had an intent to kill GZ. In fact, I’m sure I see that intent (was at my eye doctors recently and he assured me my vision was good enough to see intent. ) Hey, maybe we use the same eye doctor since it turns out you can see intent also.

  3. Mata says:

    A few things you might want to ponder, RT.

    It’s only GZ’s story that says he was punched at the tee, yet his keys/flashlight were found further south off that tee. It seems very important to him he’s documented as staying on that east-west path, and I understand why. It’s the only way he can say he was ambushed by Martin, and doesn’t further document more following.

    GZ also insists he was knocked down while at the tee, and TM was “somehow” on top of him. So how was it they got further south of the tee, if GZ was on the ground?

    Two choices, we even assuming that TM threw the first punch..

    a: TM decked him, turned to retreat south towards the house, and GZ got up and went after him

    b: The punch didn’t happen at the tee where GZ says

    I’m inclined to believe the latter, but neither bodes well for GZ and his documented intent to follow all the way to that point.

    As far as that punch goes, I have some new theories based on watching GZ tell his story over and over. He tends to freely, and instinctively, “demonstrate” what he was doing with a lot of body language… unconscious or consciously.

    While it’s interesting that the camera wasn’t focused on the arm motions of GZ during the video reenactment, when GZ describes “reaching for his cell” twice in the CVSA video, it’s quite an exaggerated motion. Judging by the sound of the off mic voice during the reenactment during that phrase, he was moving his head (thus the off mic voice quality), and likely his arms during the reenactment video as well. Only those there know if he, again, lifted his arm in that distinctive sweeping moving.

    I can’t think I’m the only one that, after watching him repeatedly do this, wonder if that reaching for his cell wasn’t actually reaching for his gun. If you’re just going to put your hand in your pocket, a seemingly innocuous event, is such a grand gesture demonstrating that needed?

    Now put yourself in the same situation as TM. You’re been eyed by this stranger, coming thru the neighborhood. He then follows you slowly in his car. You then take off to avoid that person, and he now gets out of his car to follow you on foot.

    So you round a corner, with this guy on your tail, and hide in shadows a couple of buildings away from where you live… which yes, I happen to think can be considered “near”, but that’s irrelevant since you can’t put an exact location via a phone call.

    While standing in the shadows, you see he doesn’t leave and you have to wait while he’s talking on the phone for an additional two minutes, not moving and staying out of line of sight.

    After hanging up, you see that person then walk away towards the east another 100′, and out of sight. You pause a second to be sure, and come out of the shadows to start for home, thinking he’s moved on somewhere. Meanwhile that person has turned around and coming back. You realize he is on now behind you, coming south on that same path to follow you again.

    You turn around and say something, the person doesn’t respond with any kind of identification of who he is or why he’s following you. Then that person uses an exaggerated arm movement that is “reaching” for….???? What? A gun? A movement that occurs just because you’re talking, or even arguing, with him?

    If Zimmerman did that same exact motion that he does while “demonstrating” a “reaching” for his phone, that can justifiably cause enough alarm for TM to wonder what this guy who’s been following him is reaching for. If a continue conversation or argument is the intent, it’s not normal for someone to so dramatically “reach” into their “pocket” without assuming they are going to pull something out.. and it may not be a peace offering.

    If you were TM, and that all culminated in that arm gesture after all that following/pursuing, would you believe you were under a possible threat? Do you believe you have a right to take a swing and attempt to get away after you do?

    Or do you wait to see what this stranger in pursuit actually pulls out of his “pocket” first?

    Self defense… goes two ways, you know. There are countless of LEO shooting death cases, based on someone “reaching” into their pocket, because that is a very threatening motion during an altercation.

    The more I watch GZ tell his story, and this instinctive body language, the more I think that the State believes two things:

    1: That GZ went south on that path (as the evidence seems to indicate) before any physical altercation.

    2: That his own demonstrated motions about reaching may not only bring into question whether he was reaching for his cell, but his gun, and what may have triggered any response from TM, justifiably feeling threatened.

    We’ll have to wait and see if that’s the direction they take.

  4. ivehadit says:

    What to make of this:
    “George Zimmerman Passed Police Lie Detector Test Day After Trayvon Martin Killing”.


    Ok, now we need the aural witness to take a lie detector test.

  5. ivehadit says:

    From the above article:
    “Zimmerman, the report noted, “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).”

    Along with questions about whether his first name was George and if it was Monday, Zimmerman was asked, “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was also asked, “Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy.” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.””

  6. Mata says:

    oieeyvay… First it wasn’t a “lie detector” polygraph, which uses different technology. It was a CVSA, or a voice stress analysis.

    The full hour plus video of that “test”, which contains far more than the “test”, is available online for viewing. I’ve watched it several times, and made my own personal notes of things that make you go huh?…

    A couple of legal realities… The test results, themselves, may not be admissible in court and scientific analysis of test results by those, such as the DOJ’s National Institute of Justice liken it to no better than tossing a coin when it comes to determining deception.

    Researchers with the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services (including this author) used these VSA programs while questioning more than 300 arrestees about their recent drug use. The results of the VSA output—which ostensibly indicated whether the arrestees were lying or telling the truth—were then compared to their urine drug test results. The findings of our study revealed:

    Deceptive respondents. Fifteen percent who said they had not used drugs—but who, according to their urine tests, had—were correctly identified by the VSA programs as being deceptive.

    Nondeceptive respondents. Eight and a half percent who were telling the truth—that is, their urine tests were consistent with their statements that they had or had not used drugs—were incorrectly classified by the VSA programs as being deceptive.

    Using these percentages to determine the overall accuracy rates of the two VSA programs, we found that their ability to accurately detect deception about recent drug use was about 50 percent.

    O’Mara intends to introduce the CVSA interview, along with other GZ statements, into court as evidence per his reciprocal discovery filing. However considering the hodgepodge multiple stories and discrepancies of GZ’s statements and reenactments, I wonder if this will backfire. Because, you see, before that final 3-4 minutes CVSA test, that the video contains yet another, convoluted story by GZ as to the events.

    The pile of imaginary and fact challenging concoctions that GZ says may totally eliminate any value to the CVSA test itself which, as the tester observed when he came in, GZ himself requested taking.

    There is another long and bizarre account which includes yet another “they always get away” remark, another version of circling of his vehicle (this time when he says TM’s hand was in his pocket, which happened while supposedly parked at the clubhouse) that is impossible to have occurred unless Martin possesses a Star Trek transporter or GZ possesses a time machine. There was another falsehood about he agreeing to meet the dispatcher at his SUV while he was at the RVC location etc etc.

    The almost an hour of casual chit chat prior to the tester arriving, followed by yet another GZ version/fable of the events, were far more revealing than the test itself.

    But the interesting part about watching the CVSA actual test is that they do run thru’s before, fully prepping the one being tested in advance.

    First he calibrates the voice analysis by just having him say yes and no and variety of times. Then he tells him the questions he’s going to ask in advance, and notes which questions that he wants him to deliberately lie in the answer. They do a test run. After that, then they do the “real” test.

    The first time that he asks GZ one of the questions on the “test”…if he confronted Martin… is at 58’52”. That was the first time he was specifically asked that, and the GZ response was a slight bow of the head, a quiet shaking and a barely audible “no”. This was a very stark contrast to the rest of his stronger and more confident denials. However GZ had plenty of time to work up to a confident answer after that prep period. He was no longer caught off guard by such a direct question.

    Anyone who wants to focus on the last 3-4 minutes of this hour long tape really needs to watch the entire thing… from beginning to end. Pay close attention to GZ, constantly feeling the need to demonstrate how he “reaches for his phone”… twice in that video…a movement in the middle of an altercation that has gotten many a suspect shot by police because they have no clue what that person is going to be pulling out of his pocket.

    If Martin and Zim are in an argument, and GZ did that same movement he’s instinctively demonstrated several times, that simple body movement “testimony” which seems to be a mainstay of his story may very well be the reason why the State may question whether Zim pulled his gun earlier than he claims, or even why TM may have felt justifiably threatened when GZ does that during a verbal exchange.

  7. Mata says:

    Guess you haven’t watched the full video, of which the last “official” test was only the last minutes prior to GZ leaving.

    Not withstanding yet another GZ concocted fable of the events with damaging statements when viewed in context of the time elapsed proven by the dispatchers call, you may want to see GZ’s first answer to “did you confront the guy you shot”, located in the video at 58’52″… the first time that GZ was asked that question.

    You may also want to see how the test is conducted, and you’ll figure out why CVSA’s (not a lie detector test… geez) are often inadmissible in court, and why the DOJ’s National Institute of Justice considers them little more than flipping a coin as to detecting deception.

    O’Mara has filed reciprocal discovery of items they want to introduce as evidence, including this CVSA video. Considering that the bulk of the view is actually quite damaging – most especially yet another GZ version of hodgepodge lies and falsehoods about what and when things happened – it may not be such a wise decisions. But then, perhaps O’Mara hadn’t viewed it when he filed.

    Personally, I think whatever few points they get for the last 3-4 minutes of the actual test is totally wiped clean, and into the negatives, for the rest of what’s on that over an hour long tape. If you haven’t seen it in it’s entirety, you’d better watch it – and compare it to other of multiple GZ statements and accounts, especially the dispatcher call – before you claim it’s a positive for the defense.

  8. Mata says:

    How weird. Tried to post a comment.. it disappeared. Tried again, it also disappeared. If either show up later, forgive the double post please.

  9. AJStrata says:

    Sorry Mata, went out to dinner with coworkers. Your comments have been liberated from moderation

  10. Redteam says:

    “How weird. Tried to post a comment.. it disappeared. Tried again, it also disappeared. ” disappeared? you sure that it just didn’t appear?

    The keys were lost at the T, or very near the T, which using your interpretation of near by would mean ‘on the same planet’. right?

  11. Layman says:

    Mata: Never attributed the juvenile remarks to AJ. Still… he thought they were worth quoting within his post so I’ll stick to the position thst he agrees with them.

    With regards to the CVSA or a polygraph. Let’s stipulate they are correct. So what! It may go to state of mind (did GZ believe his life wasin danger?) but if someone is living in a delussional world…?

  12. […] This post extends analysis I did in a previous post. […]

  13. Mata says:

    RT, the keys, which is Marker #1 on the crime scene photos, are about 10′ south on that N-W walk thru.

    GZ’s story is Martin accosted him while he was on the E-W path at the tee, he fell immediately back and hit the ground, then “somehow” then “ended up over here”… yada yada yada

    Marker 2 (white Walmart bag) and 3 (tan plastic bag) are further south on the path. Marker 5 (TM’s flashlight), 6 (I believe his body) and 7 (his cell) are all in a cluster even further south. AJ’s estimate of about 50-55′ is about right. Marker 8 is the bullet casing, and I’m not sure where that was found.

    So how did GZ’s keys with his flashlight, that was on when GZ said it was dead when doing his reenactment, get 10′ south on that path? If it fell out of his pocket when GZ was “reaching” for his cell, or gun, he’s not standing where he said. Most especially since he says he fell when TM hit him. Oddly enough, those keys are where he said TM was on top of him, banging his head… yet the body is another 40′ south down the path.


    GZ’s story just doesn’t hold up in light of the evidence and the dispatcher call times.

  14. Mata says:

    Tighter distance is probably about 43-48′ south of the tee for TM’s body. He’s beyond the first white partition wall which is about 40′ south, but not as far as the third partition wall.

    In the long shot from the garbage can mounted on the left of the tee of the two paths, it’s about six sidewalk sections down. Average size 4×8, making it between 43′ and 48′ south for TM’s body.

  15. Mata says:

    Just a note INRE Markers and the evidence lists from the May 15th doc dump. The DMS #s and the Marker numbers are not the same.

    The Arizona tea can did not get a Marker number, but is labeled DMS-8. The 9mm spent casing is Marker #8, but is labeled DMS-11.

  16. […] You can see here in this picture where GZ’s keys (Item A) where found. Note TM’s body way off in the distant background. This picture, taken the night of the incident, is from the T-intersection of the sidewalk (from a previous post). […]