Feb 12 2009

Dems Close The Barn Door After The Horses Have Escaped

Published by at 3:26 pm under All General Discussions

This is nuts. The economy may be rebounding a bit days before we go mortgage the next two generations with debt at the alter of liberal pork spending:

Sales at U.S. retailers unexpectedly halted a record six-month slide in January, an advance that may not be sustained as job losses climb.

The 1 percent increase followed a 3 percent drop the prior month, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Excluding cars, the gain was 0.9 percent. Last month’s rise reflected higher gasoline prices and more spending on items including clothing and food.

Here’s an amazing historical trend on the historical hysteria of Congress regarding economic downturns:

Anyone see the pattern here regarding the uncontrolled growth of government? Our leaders know we will recover, they just like to use the scare-tactic opportunity to shove things through we would normally reject.

Are we dupes or what?

14 responses so far

14 Responses to “Dems Close The Barn Door After The Horses Have Escaped”

  1. conman says:

    AJ,

    Do you ever actually read the articles that you link to in your posts? You really should start reading them all the way through before you link to articles that actually undermine the very same point you are trying to make. In fact, the portion that you did quote mentions higher gas prices as one of the two reasons for the increase – do you not understand that this specific increase in spending has nothing to do with consumers buying more product? So, what else did the Bloomberg article you linked to say?

    ““There were enough post-holiday sales to lure people into the stores; the question is whether that is sustainable — and the answer is, obviously not,” said Tom Porcelli, a senior economist at Castlestone Management Ltd. In New York. A “collapsing’ job market means spending will deteriorate further, he said.

    Separate figures today showed the number of Americans collecting unemployment benefits reached a record 4.8 million two weeks ago, reinforcing the threat to spending. Economists anticipate household purchases will tumble further in the first half of the year, underscoring the case for the $789 billion stimulus package under debate in Congress.

    Stock-index futures initially pared losses after the retail- sales report was released, then resumed their decline. Contracts on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Stock Index fell 1.6 percent to 818 at 9:19 a.m. in New York. Treasuries were little changed, with yields on benchmark 10-year notes at 2.76 percent. ”

    “Consumer spending is set to contract again this quarter after falling in the second half of 2008, economists predict. Purchases haven’t declined for three consecutive three-month periods since records began in 1947.

    The world’s largest economy may contract at a 5.5 percent annual pace this quarter after shrinking at a 3.8 percent rate in the last three months of 2008, according to a forecast by economists at Morgan Stanley in New York. Last quarter’s drop was the biggest since 1982.

    The unemployment rate jumped to 7.6 percent in January, the highest level since 1992, the Labor Department said last week. Payrolls plunged by 598,000, bringing the total number of jobs lost over the last 13 months to 3.6 million. ”

    In other words, everybody that actually understands how the economy works thinks a single month 1% increase in retail sales is insignificant in light of all of the other dire economic indicators and is not sustainable. Thanks for reminding us why we shouldn’t listen to ANYTHING you say about the economic situation. Seriously, anyone who thinks that we are not in the middle of a real recession that will be deep and long-lasting, and that this is all just hype, has no business weighing in on economic issues.

  2. KauaiBoy says:

    I guess then that the public is stocking up for armeggedon.

  3. lurker9876 says:

    I think these numbers do not include the fallout from the massive layoffs.

    But February may tell a different story.

    Kauai, you may be right.

  4. conman says:

    KauaiBoy,

    No, the article AJ linked explains exactly why there was an increase: “Last month’s rise reflected higher gasoline prices and more spending on items including clothing and food.” It further explains: “There were enough post-holiday sales to lure people into the stores.” Get it? The 1% increase is due to higher retail gas prices and people taking advantage of post-holiday sales that included record discounts because retailers are doing anything and everything to unload their inventory in light of the recession. It is really not that hard to understand unless you chose to ignore facts for ideological reasons.

  5. kathie says:

    The stimulus package has nothing to do with creating jobs except as maybe a small by product of the real point which is social engineering of the unemployable and the unions. The bottom up thinking that Obama has his only experience in, is being taken nation wide. He kinda forgot that someone not at the bottom needs to exist to give the bottom a job, unless he thinks that all those guys with their pants around their ankles, and hats on backwards are our future.

    We do not have an operating budget yet. We have not fixed the credit market and we are spending ourself into oblivion. What will a recovery look like? Maybe 1% growth? If anybody believes that we will see 3 or 4% growth before most of us are dead they are delusional. Everybody will be poorer, and especially those at the bottom will be even poorer then they are today, and many more of them. Obama’s ideology is so sick I can’t believe that anyone would support it. It has no logic.

  6. conman says:

    Kathie,

    Okay, so what do you think we should do? Just let the free market play it out? Let the credit market freeze up, major banks fail, unemployment skyrocket and figure that things will eventually work themselves out? While there is debate on how best to address the problem, I have not heard a single economist who doesn’t agree that the government needs to do something to stimulate the economy because the private sector cannot do it with major financial institutions in dire straits and nobody willing and/or able to lend credit. Even Bush recognized that fact.

    Or do you think that the top-down method is the better method? Paulson handed out $350 billion to the finance industry and has nothing to show for it. For the most part, we don’t know where the money went or how it was spent. What we do know is that roughly $8 billion was spent on bonuses and very little, if any, of it was actually used for loans. Is that what you think is a good plan?

    Also, why did Republicans all of a sudden start worrying about spending and deficits? We’ve spent $650 billion in Iraq and counting. Bush and the Republicans spent money like drunken sailors and left us with the largest deficit in U.S history? Why all of a sudden the complaints about spending and deficits now that we are forced to respond to a major economic crises?

    The Republican’s reaction to this economic crises reminds me of the Democrats reaction to the surge in Iraq. They oppose the President’s plan, but don’t have a real plan of their own. They criticize the cost and question the likelihood of success, but basically don’t offer an alternative to get us out of this mess. Their plan is simply to let conditions play out and deal with the fall out later. As the opposition party, that is a safe position to take since they don’t have to make the hard decisions themselves – they just get to criticize and walk away. They are banking on the plan failing so they can take credit for opposing it and help their chances for the next election. How patriotic. Today, that may seem like a good bet because this is an unprecedented economic crises and nobody knows for sure how things will play, how effective the stimulus will be or how long it will take to show tangible results. That is what the Democrats banked on with the surge. But as we learned from Iraq, there is also a danger with this strategy. If the plan does produce results and we discover in the long run that the stimulus helped avoid a total collapse or reduced the depth/longevity of the recession, the GOP is in big trouble. Not only did they get us into this mess, but the American public would conclude that they tried to stop us from doing something to get out of it for political gains.

    So, while you all are hoping and praying that the plan fails and our economy goes down the tubes so Obama and the Democrats take the blame and the Republicans can make gains in the next election, I’ll be rooting for success so that America does recover and we get ourselves back on sounder financial footing. Welcome to the opposition!

  7. JDavis says:

    The stimulus plan or porkulus plan, take your pick has nothing to do with getting the country out of a recession. It is intended to ensure that Democrats never lose power again. It’s intended to buy a voting constituency that will be locked into voting to keep what they have been “given” by voting the “givers” back in office.

    That said, there were a number of reasons why our economy went downhill. The cost of gasoline was ramped up so high so fast that people had to decide, pay bills or get the gas they needed to go to work. Second, people were given loans that never should have been given them.

    We would not be in this economic mess if President Obama had promised not to raise taxes in a recession. Promised that he would not let the Bush tax cuts die. (Tax increase) Promised the country that we will explore, drill, build refineries and nuclear plants to expand our own energy.

    He did not do this. Other than Jimmy Carter, I do not recall a president of either party who has spread such fear mongering drivel.

  8. kathie says:

    Conman……..I no longer have conversations with Democrat talking points.

  9. dave m says:

    Manufactured crisis,
    the 550 billion electronic withdrawal complete in one hour
    the October surprise
    google Cloward Piven strategy of orchestrated chaos
    on second thought, better not use google,
    use ixquick
    they don’t build a database on you

  10. I R A Darth Aggie says:

    Just let the free market play it out?

    Umm, yes. Whom do you think will be lending us the $800 billion? and at what interest rate?

    Inflation is coming. The porkulus will exacerbate a bad situation and make it worse. Sometimes, the proper thing to do is nothing. Yes, we’ll need to take our lumps, but that’s a bill that is coming due. Postponing it only leads to greater pain as the interest accumulates.

    But if you must do something, maybe something more targeted and less pork-laden will do?

  11. conman says:

    Kathie,

    “Conman……..I no longer have conversations with Democrat talking points.”

    Oh, the luxuries of being in the opposition. Nit pick, criticize, question EVERYTHING Obama does to attempt to fix the massive and complicated problems he inherited. Then when you are asked -well, what would you do instead – refuse to answer on the principle that you don’t respond to talking points. I’m sure there is some magical conservative answers out there on how to easily fix all of our nations problems without any risk or long-term impacts, but Republicans can’t be bothered with coming up with solutions. They are too busy bitching about the Democrats.

    Just remember Kathie, next time you are hoping for Obama to fail with the economic recovery think about all of those liberals who rooted for America to lose in Iraq so that they could prove Bush and the Republicans wrong. Liberals who wanted America to fail just so they could prove Bush and the Republicans wrong and allow for Democrats to make political gains. And remind yourself that you are no different than those liberals – hoping America falters for the good of your ideology and political affiliation.

  12. kathie says:

    I have said a gazillion times what I would do, and why, and why Obama is being disingenuous in what he is calling a jobs creating package. It is a lie……..so conman that’s that.

  13. conman says:

    Kathie,

    I looked back through your comments on the stimulus bill over the last few weeks. I saw a LOT of complaining about Obama and his plan, but only once where you said what we should actually do in the alternative:

    “I can’t spend money except on absolute essentials because I don’t trust my source of income, I don’t trust what mandates the government is going to make on my income or on products that I might buy. I think that the government should take the same posture. Only spend what is absolutely necessary. Cut government spending, make the states balance their budget. If the government mirrored what we the people must do, people would have confidence and slowly begin to spend and investing. Lower taxes on the middle class and businesses, and wait.” http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/7831#comments

    So your plan is for the government to lower taxes, cut spending and wait and see what happens. That’s funny, McCain campaigned on the same approach and lost in large part because most Americans thought he was clueless on getting us out of the economic crisies. How will your plan prevent the entire banking industry from collapsing, encourage business to invest and keep people employed, or provide some safety net for the millions of people who will be out of home and essentials as the recession plays out. We know that tax cuts alone won’t stimulate the economy – the 2008 tax rebate had almost no affect stimulating the economy because most Americans saved this rebate, rather than spend it, because they were getting nervous about the economy. Many people and businesses, like yourself, are really afraid to spend any significant money right now due to the economic uncertainty. That is why tax cuts won’t stimulate spending and investment until the economy is stabilized. Can you imagine if Obama’s plan was – hey, we are just going to ride this thing out and hope things turn around on their own, good luck with the fall out my fellow Americans! Please.

    I also found some other gems from your comments that only reinforce my point.

    “Yup guy, I’m going to blame him for every little misstep that he makes as well as any missteps by anyone in his administration as if he did it himself. I’ve learned something about politics these last 8 years. Blame, blame, blame lie, lie lie, bring down those high approval ratings because it is the best way to get back in the game. Good strategy, the dems are good teachers.” http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/7664#comments

    Just as I suspected – a Republican first, an American second!

    And then there is this beauty:

    “Obama says that trickle down economic thought is dead. It didn’t work for the last eight years and it won’t work now. Really! Bush inherited a recession with the implosion of the dot com bubble. At the time that was a really big deal and millions lost billions.” http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/7797#comments

    So Bush should be given a break for the rather mild recession he inherited in 2001, but Obama is completely responsible for the severe recession he inherited in 2009? Yeah, got it – it make a whole lot of sense to me!

  14. Redteam says:

    Conguy, you been on vacation?

    what’s this crap asking asking a Repub if they’re Repub first American second? at least they’re proud to be Americans, unlike most libs and Michelle Obama.

    Kathie is right, you’re all Democrat talking points.
    Why don’t you talk about Geithner, Daschele, Rahm,etc, all those crooks surrounding Obama.

    Tell us how proud you are of all those decisions your guy is making, turning terrorists loose, halting trials of confessed terrorists. Talk about all those things you are really proud of. What do you think of your guy furling himself in American flags when he wouldn’t even wear a lapel pin before… come on…. you gotta be proud.