May 23 2008

All Wars – Whether Victories, Defeats Or Draws – Leave Behind Troubles. We Can Declare Victory In Iraq

The last great war, World War II, was a victory for the West over the last rise of fascism.  At that time the Fascism rose on the shoulders of racism.   In the current war on terror the fascist rose on the shoulders of religious extremism.  But very few remember clearly what happens when wars are over.  Too many focus on the ticker-tape parades and forget the reality.  All wars leave behind troubles, problems, messes and anger.  There is no kumbayah moment were all the peace breaks out at once.  This is not a Hollywood movie.

After World War II the world was actually left in really bad shape.  Russia took over half of Europe. Something everyone expected was to be a liberation turned into a massive prison behind an iron curtain, controlled at the point of a gun.  Berlin was under siege, US and British forces could only fly in supplies.  It looked like another war was about to break out between Europe and Russia.

In the Pacific the Chinese also turned to communism, and tried to also take over neighboring states. The alliance that had defeated Germany, Japan and Italy was at each other’s throats.  It was like some didn’t know when to stop fighting so they turned on each other.  This was the result of the greatest victory over evil in mankind’s history.  This was the result of the sacrifices made by the greatest generation alive (with those fighting the war on terror now a very, very close second).

In Korea a few years later China made its move to annex its neighbor.  After 4 years of nearly losing and nearly winning the West fought to a draw.  The result was a belligerent and cornered North Korea railing against its border with South Korea for decades as it impoverished its people into the worse mass slavery to a dictator in many centuries.  We have had to have massive forces focused on this caged animal for half a century, because we fought to a draw and not a decisive win (like in WW II).  We did not have the will in Korea so soon after WW II.

In Vietnam we tried to hide our hand for years, and then tried to do it on the cheap for years, and then let the media take victories and claim them as defeats.  It was useless war to start, but by not winning the aftermath was massive human atrocities on a scale no one can grasp in their minds.  The carnage is too great, and it rivals the carnage Hitler pulled off in Europe.  The only difference is this carnage came because we let ourselves lose.  Or more precisely we stopped ourselves from winning.  Vietnam was not that important strategically, which is why it could be given up as a tactical loss.  But the price paid by humankind for that short sighted end of hostilities was worse than all the deaths in the two large wars previously.

In WW II evil was beaten down.  In Korea it was contained.  In both cases the end results, while messy, included freedom from oppression and death for vast masses of humanity.  In Vietnam, because we buckled, all the dying by our forces simply resulted in more death after the war was over as the Khmer Rouge and North Vietnamese went on one of the most horrific killing sprees in the history of mankind.

Three wars, three different conclusions – all left behind troubles.  The farther from victory we end, the more troubles we’re left to deal with.  And the one loss resulted in more deaths afterwards than inflicted in combat – and they were all non-combatants dying.

Iraq will not see the fates of any of these wars, unless we want it to so much we screw up to make it happen.  IBD notes today that it is coming close to time where we can declare victory in Iraq.  Not yet of course, but we should start to prepare for it if conditions continue on their current path.

Back from the front, Gen. David Petraeus called on Congress Thursday to begin considering a drawdown of U.S. troops after five years of war. Violence in Iraq has plunged to its lowest levels since 2004, and al-Qaida is a tattered shadow of its formerself — key leaders dead, successors weak and recruiting down.

“My sense” Petraeus said, “is I will be able to make a recommendation (in the autumn) for further reductions.”

This is no Saigon-style exit, but a coming victorious end of a long conflict. U.S. forces have pounded al-Qaida into irrelevance.

No, this is not Vietnam.  And it is not Korea either.  And it is not WW II.  Iraq has the potential to have cost a fraction of the lives of these previous conflicts, and to end with the least troubles left behind.  Our regional enemies in Iran are so distraught over our success in Iraq they are rattling their cage in anger, threatening war if peace and an alliance with America breaks out!

A senior Iranian cleric on Friday slammed as treachery to Islam a security accord due to be sealed between Baghdad and Washington on the presence of American troops in Iraq.

“It is open-ended slavery. It is the worst humiliation.

“Any hand that signs such an agreement will be considered by Iran as a traitor to Islam, to Shiism and to the Iraqi people,” he added.

This kind of frustrated and scared reaction by Iran warms my heart – because it is the best indication yet we are making a huge difference in Iraq and the region.  Iran is losing its ability to sow death and destruction as it sees fit – their slave shackles.  Well then, we must be doing things right!

Iraq is full of hope now that the dark shadow of Islamo Fascism has been removed from the country.  Basra is happy, and the stories of Islamo Fascist atrocities on fellow muslims are echoing throughout the Muslim Street, destroying the cancer that is al-Qaeda and their ilk.  This is the memory of al-Qaeda in Iraq:

The insurgents targeted men and usually left women and the elderly alone, so Abu Hassan went into hiding and his mother and wife, both teachers, went to work, did the shopping and updated him on the world outside: the killings, the bombings, the deterioration of the neighborhood and eventually the turnaround. His wife is a Sunni, which helped ensure her safety, as long as nobody knew her Shiite husband was hiding at home.

That ‘turnaround’ was the combined Awakening and US troop Surge which worked side by side to fight off and destroy al-Qaeda.  Across the region from Lebanon to Afghanistan al-Qaeda is losing ground. And it started in Anbar, when Muslim allies of al-Qaeda realized who the real enemy of Islam was.  They realized it was al-Qaeda (since they were the ones killing the Iraqi Muslims by droves) and not the Americans.  Once this realization hit Iraq turned a corner, and so did Islam.  Even Moqtada al-Sadr realized that the bloodshed being committed by religious fanatics was backfiring in the Muslim Street:

Petraeus noted dissident Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr issued a cease-fire last fall, realizing the actions of certain militia elements “were creating problems” and actually undermining support for his movement.

That is why Sadr and his Sadrists sued for peace in Basra and Sadr City, they were losing the Muslim Street. They were being defeated and their only hope for survival was to sue for peace. That is why Iraqi forces now control most of the country and the Militias are now political movements and not independent armies. That is why Iraq is healing and integrating.

Here is the news, from Iraqis themselves, the Western media cannot seem to find time or space to report – it is all about progress and a bright future:

Since 2003, we have built the Kurdistan Region as a model for democracy and a gateway for development for all of Iraq. We are willing partners in this transition toward an Iraqi government that is representative of all its people. Through our peshmerga forces, we provide some of the most effective units against al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. We Kurds are committed to a federal, democratic Iraq at peace within its borders and with its neighbours. 

We are working with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and the Iraqi leadership in Baghdad on the difficult issues facing our country. Our relationship with Iraq’s federal government has never been better. And progress is being made on an oil law, the status of disputed territories, the proper role for Iraq’s neighbours to play, and on relations between the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) and Turkey. 

There is much more brightness than dark in Iraq.   There is expanding hope and retreating Islamo Fascism. There is increasing security, and increasing frustration in Iran that it lost its opportunity to beat the Great Satan.   There is victory coming to Iraq and America.  And it will leave behind troubles and challenges.  All wars do.  

The question is whether to deal with these problems as the victor or the vanquished.  Too many on the left in the West yearn to be dealing with the mess of Iraq from a position of defeat.  They ignorantly believe this position will help their political aspirations back home.  Sadly for them victory creeps closer, and their political dreams start to fade in the face of the rising new Iraq.  

Americans, whether for or against the war, know down deep we need to work the lingering messes from the best vantage point possible.  And since we can attain the high ground of victory now, there is no reason for Americans to make Iraq more like Vietnam, with all the death and atrocities that would follow.   Amazingly, those who decry the death and destruction in Iraq the most now promote the idea of not only continuing it through our defeat, but amplifying it manifold by allowing the now beaten forces if Islamo Fascism to escape again to pillage and murder their fellow Muslims.  Now it is the left whose policies will surely bring about massive human sufferings to these people – and they cannot even admit it to themselves.

49 responses so far

49 Responses to “All Wars – Whether Victories, Defeats Or Draws – Leave Behind Troubles. We Can Declare Victory In Iraq”

  1. VinceP1974 says:

    He’s just gettign around to it now?

    I’ll have to find his comments in full… all i’ve read is the media reports, so I know i’m probably being misled by them, as you stated.

  2. kathie says:

    Vince go to “Gateway Pundit”, that’s what I’m saying about AP reporting. They made it sound like we are occupying Iraq and al Sastini therefore said that Iraqi’s could shoot at us. That is a lie. Western media thinks of us as occupiers so an AP reporter drew that conclusion. When I saw the al Sistani report my heart sunk. Just as the AP reporter wanted it to.

  3. ivehadit says:

    Great post AJ. I am going to send it around. 🙂

    I am so proud of our military and, of course, our wonderful, brave and strong president, George. W. Bush. Atop Mt. Rushmore, he should be!

    And again, don’t tell soothie or norm about our victory in this theatre of a very large and long war for the survival of western civilization. hehehe

    Now, on to victory in November against the America-hating global socialists…..

  4. Boghie says:

    A similar themed post by Wretchard at ‘The Belmont Club’ is worth a solid read:


    References a long – and well thought out article in ‘The New Republic’:

    ’The Unraveling’

    The final question, could the reformation happening within the Islamic community have occurred without the furies of hell brought forth as a result of 9/11?

    I strongly recommend those reads.

  5. VinceP1974 says:

    I haven’t read the links, so perhaps I’m repeating things that are said there …

    The way I see it.. there was no other way to get to the place Iraq is at now.

    The only way the people of Iraq would come to see Americans as not out to plunder their country, and to see that Islamic rule is a nightmare is for them to have experienced exactly what they wanted… islamic rule by Iran, Al Qaeda, and Sadrists.

    The insurgancy.. often blamed on US shortsightedness, but IMHO was inevitible… has discredited the Caliphatists… our Counter-insurgency has demostrated our sincerity…

    What other process would have resulted in this result?

  6. Mata says:

    Vince, per the AP story by HAMZA HENDAWI and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, the fatwas were issued privately, verbally, and only to a chosen few. Don’t hold your breath on seeing translations.

    The AP writers interpret this as okay to attack US personnel. Juan Cole says it includes US *or* foreign fighters.

    Since neither were likely on the receiving end of Sistani’s whispered fatwas, all are merely interpretations based on 2nd hand sources.

    However Cole does make one viable point (for a change…). That with the assault on Sadr City, he was criticized for remaining silent. Since he supports the elected Iraq government’s rule of law, perhaps that why these were done on the QT, and not posted for the world to see.

    There is nothing that supports these fatwas – if indeed they did get issued quietly at all (I love Talisman Gate….) – do *not* include US troops. Guess we’ll just have to wait if some rogue elements pick up on the news report and run with it. If they do, we’ll see our guys undergo incoming and not-so-friendly fire.

    I’ll have to agree with many posters here. While AJ’s post is good, I feel it premature to declare victory. When the Iraq gov’t says to us… go with Allah, we’ve got it from here… that’s when I’ll say victory has been achieved. No thanks, however, to a cowardly Congress and inflammatory western press. And too bad that – unless a DNC POTUS pulls out prematurely – it may happen under a sleazy Dem, hot-to-trot to take credit for all he/she fought against.

    But victory is good, despite the idiots who posture for the kudos.

    BTW, first visit since the “new look”. Good stuff, AJ. Definitely an improvement.

  7. Boghie says:

    Mata et al.,

    We are setting up long term bilateral economic and military agreements with Iraq.

    We will station forces in Iraq for decades to come.

    Not to fight in Iraq, but to deter Iran.

    Allies forever!!!!!

  8. kathie says:

    Vince I think Rummy had the right idea. Keep a small footprint and let the Iraqi’s stand up for themselves. We didn’t kill the looters, because we didn’t want to be seen killing ordinary citizens. Then al Queda came in and the Iraqi’s could stand up for themselves. And we know the rest of the story. I agree that the Iraqi’s needed to see the worst of the worst to realize they didn’t want it. When Hizbollah turned their guns on Lebanese citizens, many thought that Iran and Hizbollah were the winners, but in the long run I think ordinary citizens will realize they are no better then al Queda, and more “Awakening” will happen again. It will take years, but maybe there is the domino effect we were hoping for with communism?

  9. Boghie says:


    For al-Qaeda and much of the Islamofascist word me thinks even a ‘premature’ pullout will happen too late.

    Imagine the Joy of Life on the Other Side.
    A blissful Michael Moore life of fairly instant death.
    Living that Dream for SEVEN years.

    To be rather crude, the Islamofascist movement doesn’t look kinda pregnant, or kinda defeated, kinda whooped.

    They look defeated and crushed.

    Seven years of bliss have left the movement rather dead.

  10. ivehadit says:

    Boghie, I can’t link to The Unraveling. Do you have the full address of the article?

    And the guy from Stratfor that I heard speak, has said as much about our new ally, Iraq! And that is what just KILLS the libs…that George has been able to do something so tangible in changing the Middle East. NO other President has been able to do this! And the Iraqi’s really love us, ya know!

    But don’t tell soothie or norm…hehehe.

    Mushrooms are kept in the dark and fed you know what…:)

  11. Boghie says:


    The New Republic’s The Unraveling

    and, Wretchard’s post Retrospective

    What I love is that the Libs all squeal that Iran is stronger now than they were on 2001/09/10. Yuk, yuk.

    They love having to expend resources dealing with their Iraqi border (150,000 Americans and 425,000 American trained Iraqis), their Afghan border, their Pakistan border, and the Arabian Gulf.

    in 2001 they could merrily spend all their resources on their ‘civilian’ nuclear program designed to use weapons grade fuel.

  12. VinceP1974 says:

    The Islamofascist movement lives on strong.

    You folks eager to declare victory over militant Islam need to take a larger view of what their ultimate objectives are…. and who ‘They’ are.

    The Ultimate Goal is a global Caliphate.

    How to get there is a matter of strategy and tactics.

    The more militant Sunni groups (the violent off-spring of the Mus Brotherhood and others) believe they must establish a base State, declare a Caliphate, install a Caliph and then go on world-wide Jihad. To do so requires two things… clear out the Middle East of non-conforming governments…. and destroy the foreign powers that stand in their way (us).

    The non-militant groups like Hizb-ut-tahir and the Mus Brotherhood political parties and others believe in Dawa… Dawa is similar to evangalism, or that which results in the same thing… the geographic spread of the domain of Islam from the bottom-up. A far-flung Caliphate will emerge in various places all over the world.. linking with the central one established somewhere in the Islamic world (by the militants or by whatever means)

    They plan to peacefully subvert the countries they are in, and once they achieved the political means to do so, they will establish sharia law no matter what the original culture is.

    We (the West) are doing absolutely nothing about this..and we are allowing our laws to be used against us by them as they pursue their agenda.

    All the Muslims know they have defeated Europe via demographic colonization. they know within a few generations they will have control there.

    They know they advancing in Africa.. they are advancing in Asia.

    They are advanancing in South America. in Central America, in Canada.

    Al Qaeda could vanish tomorrow , the Islamic threat continues on.

  13. ivehadit says:

    Great reads, Boghie! Thanks!

  14. Boghie says:


    The militant factions of Islam are being cordoned off, isolated, and wiped out. The areas that remain are shrinking and facing containment. Hitler wanted a ‘Caliphate’ in 1944, he and his movement were destroyed by 1945. Look at Hitler’s ‘Caliphate’ in 1942 and look at the Islamists Caliphate in 2008. All in all, I would rather be in Hitler’s position in 1943 than the Islamist position now. The Islamist movement has NO allies, no positive cultural connections with other civilizations, no centers of power.

    However, we can always quit and have to start all over again (sarcasm alert).

    Regarding the Dawa front – please review the links posted earlier. They directly bear on that topic.

    My guess is that after being crushed militarily and culturally for the past seven years there will be some survivors eking out a base existence hoping for the election of the HopeMonger. Well, even if the HopeMonger Ambassador wins, they lose. SEVEN years of decimation leaves a lot of rebuilding to do. And, there might be doubts about yanking the talons of the eagle again, eh.

    If your point is that we should not declare victory and run home I am in complete agreement. This is the type of enemy that we can never let off the ground. Every day we should wake up and give em a little kick where it hurts. Some day we will look for a spot to kick and not find one. On that day we can relax and enjoy a Memorial Day barbeque.

    When the Dawa movement sees no future in militancy and initiates a reformation we have well and truly won – and Islam will have well and truly won.

    A Win / Win Situation!!!

  15. joe six-pack says:

    We are considered ‘occupiers’ because NO other form of rule can be in control of a geographical area that was at one time ruled by Islam. This is not extreme in that Islamic law is quite clear. This is tied in with the law that the penalty for leaving Islam is death.

    Islam was designed this way. To quote Bernard Lewis: “The presumption is that the obligation of Jihad will continue (Interrupted only by truces) until either the world adopts Islam or is subjected to Muslim rule.”

    Jihad means much more than ‘Holy War’. Please research and decide for yourself.

    Islam has many more fundamental problems that need to be resolved. The war in Iraq is not large enough to resolve all of these issues.

  16. VinceP1974 says:


    I think you’re being too general in your analysis about the Islamilization Project that the Non-Terrorist groups are doing.

    You say that generally , globally, Muslims do not want to live under strict sharia law, or spread … but that doesn’t really address what I’m talking about.

    Perhaps Muslims don’t want to live under theological tryanny, that doesnt’ mean they are not a threat to Western cultural and law.

    Militancy is a tactic, not an end. They dont have to use violence to destroy our societies. The womb is just as powerful… and it is to the womb that I was referring to when I spoke of the advances Islam has been making.

    Plus your analysis weighs too much on short-term developments , such as the defeat of some of today’s militant groups. Islam is a project going on 1,400 years. Muslims are assured by the word of Allah that eventually they will have control of the entire world, thus they have the confidence of long-term success.

    Here’s a video of Libyan Leader Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi

    Amoung other nonsense he said, he said this:

    Today, we are correcting human history from here, in Timbuktu.

    We have fifty million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.

    Allah mobilizes the Muslim nation of Turkey, and adds it to the European Union. That’s another 50 million Muslims. There will be 100 million Muslims in Europe. Albania, which is a Muslim country, has already entered the EU. Bosnia, which is a Muslim country, has already entered the EU. 50 percent of its citizens are Muslims.

    Albania/Bosnia are potential candidates for ascention to the EU. So he’s wrong on details.

    The details dont matter… the destiny does. Muslims around the world are considering the conquest of Europe as a fait acompoli… and they will have captured it non-violently.

    Violence is not the benchmark in measuring how well or bad this “War on Terror” is going.

    The spread of Sharia law is the benchmark… and its’ spreading more and more each day.

    When the idiotic State Department decrees that the words “Islamic terrorism” should not longer be used.. that is sharia law in action.

    It is in sharia that no Non-Muslim should discuss Islam or “insult” Muslims by pointing out the barbarity of their actions.

    And that is just what our government is agreeing not to do.

    It is Sharia law that no Non-Muslim touch a Koran. And we have our military in Cuba touching the Koran with globes as if we’re infected..and our president on his knees apologizing because some yahoo shot the book.

    That is sharia.

  17. VinceP1974 says:

    Here is the result of what I’m talking about (excerpts):

    Ethnic War in Brussels: Moroccans Attack “Whites”

    On Friday evening (today), riots broke out in the streets of Brussels between Moroccan youths and supporters of football club RSC Anderlecht. On Thursday evening, a blog had called for attacks on the “white” supporters of the club, and “to burn pubs, houses and cars.”

    In a reaction to a blog posting by an Anderlecht supporter, who uses the nickname da reflect, provides a clue to the reason why riots between Moroccans and supporters of Anderlecht broke out on Sunday evening: Someone, using the name RSCA SpideY, asks whether today’s riots have something to do with “that Moroccan guy who tried to rob an Anderlecht supporter on Sunday evening and was beaten up by other RSC Anderlecht supporters afterwards.” There is no confirmation of this story in the mainstream media, but they are not citing any other reason why riots broke out on Sunday.

    Note this comment on the web page:

    beginning of the end of safety
    Submitted by Misterjos on Sat, 2008-05-24 15:59.
    yeah, i live in a (small) city in belgium with quite a bit of muslims and i can assure you that its just the beginning, it is getting worse here every day. This is an incident that comes in the news, but there are lots and lots of incidents that are on a smaller scale and thus dont reach the newspapers, problems with muslims are by no way isolated incidents, these are epidemic and a lot of people dont even go to the police if they are robbed because its useless, what if they find the thief, they dont have anything so you cant punish them and putting them in jail costs the state a lot of money (there is no place in jail anyway, its already full of muslims and east-europeans). Parties are almost always disrupted by fighting muslims and you cannot deny them access for it is racism. Maybe its time to get a gun or a good knife (muslims usually have a knife in their pockets so you better dont fight them with bare hands). As i said before i want to get out of here, but then again, where to?

    So this is a war we’re winning? This is the war… just as Iraq is the war. And Afghanistan is the war.

    Just as in ancient Persia this is the war:

    “More Moslems came, and soon a small mosque was built, which attracted yet others. As long as Zoroastrians remained in the majority, their lives were tolerable; but once the Moslems became the more numerous, a petty but pervasive harassment was apt to develop. This was partly verbal, with taunts about fire-worship, and comments on how few Zoroastrians there were in the world, and how many Moslems, who must therefore posses the truth; and also on how many material advantages lay with Islam. The harassment was often also physical; boys fought, and gangs of youth waylaid and bullied individual Zoroastrians. They also diverted themselves by climbing into the local tower of silence and desecrating it, and they might even break into the fire-temple and seek to pollute or extinguish the sacred flame. Those with criminal leanings found too that a religious minority provided tempting opportunities for theft, pilfering from the open fields, and sometimes rape and arson. Those Zoroastrians who resisted all these pressures often preferred therefore in the end to sell out and move to some other place where their co-religionists were still relatively numerous, and they could live at peace; and so another village was lost to the old faith.”

    Boyce, A Persian Stronghold of Zoroastrianism, pp. 7-8;

  18. WWS says:

    “So this is a war we’re winning? ”

    Good post, but I want to respond to that one line in particular: look where this is happening. Brussels. Brussels, the city that wanted to make itself Center of the Euro-Universe, Home of the World Court, Holder of the Eternal Flame – Brussels, the single most explicitly Anti-American city in all of Europe, and I include Moscow.

    Brussels – We can’t fight their war for them, even if they DID want our help. (which they don’t) If they go to hell, they have only themselves to blame. And all things considered, it may not be that much of a loss.

  19. VinceP1974 says:

    Well I certainly have no love for Brussels.. and it’s entirely their fault for what is happening… but it’s happening here too.

    It’s just they’re 20 years ahead of us and their cities are more dense than ours, so this type of seige is easier to do there.

    And Brussels is probably like Shangri-La to the Democrats.. so as Brussels goes, so goes America under the Dems.

  20. VinceP1974 says:

    This Daniel Pipe’s view of the war momentum:

    DRZZ: Professor Guy Millière wrote that the radical Islam lost ground. Do you share this optimism?

    PIPES: Not, I see it on the contrary extending in more sophisticated and more dangerous way. Recep Tyyip Erdogan worries me much more than the ayatollah Khomeini at the time.