Jan 17 2007
Note To Republicans: You Can Stay In The Minority
I have a message to Republicans who want to punish people who are trying to make a living and simple do not have the forms to do so. Like the lack of any other license, the penalties for not supplying paperwork usually are fines and probation. Illegal workers are not felons (note to Reps, you lost that battle too). So confiscation of property and a forced march to the borders is out of the question as a measured punishment.
The President’s worker program has penalties: back taxes must be paid, jobs must be out in the open an compliant with employment and tax laws (which will reduce take home pay), and no time in country up until registration into the program can be used towards citizenship. These are not trivial and a lot more than most Americans would face for not having their papers in order (or not filing their taxes). The carrot for immigrants is the ability to work openly – if they can keep employed and stay out of trouble. Background checks will toss out the criminal element no one wants here, but which are a small minority of the illegal population.
Reps claim they will fight Mel Martinez (Senator from ‘third world Florida’ according to one rabid Rep) over his support of the guest worker program. Right now the word ‘amnesty’ from a Rep equates with “I am ready to lose more elections to liberals because I won’t listent to the conservatives who disagree with me”. So the response is immediate from the other side. The anti-amnesty folks are a non starter in every sense. And if it means the Reps remain out of power, then so be it. There are plenty of options out there for voters. And if you doubt this let me make the obvious point. Florida is the anchor to Republican Presidential bids. Dems have CA and NY tied up and the Reps haveTX. Without FL Reps will never see the White House. And Florida is not a deep red state. It has one Rep and one Dem Senator. It was the 2000 decisive battlefield with the closest Presidential race in modern history. Insulting Floridians will only deepen the Reps period in political ‘time out’ for misbehaving. Why some marginal Reps are so obsessed with extreme punishment in this matter is beyond me. But their extremism on this one issue will anchor the Reps in the minority for as long as it takes for them to get over it.
AJ,
I agree 100 percent and I don’t see the extremists in the republican party changing any time soon. Our country will suffer and it won’t be solely because of democrats. Extremists in the republican party will have to share the blame. Sickening.
Have a great day.
AJ, it’s not like the Reps haven’t had lots of practice being in the minority. Even when they finally emerged from 40 years in the wilderness in 1994, they never really learned to behave as though they were in the majority. The basic tenets of the Republican Party of limited government, lower taxes, personal responsibility and entrepreneurship still hold more sway with me than the alternatives offered by the Dems. That said, the further the GOP strays from those principles, the greater the opportunity for the formation of a broad, centrist party; I believe it was Crosspatch who referred to it as “The Common Sense Party”.
The one thing that has always puzzled me about politics, particularly at the national level, is how the broadly diverse factions that make up the Democrat Party can come together for their common good, while the GOP, with far less diversity, cannot ever seem to achieve unity. Any thoughts?
Satirist,
Thanks. Yeah, we could be doing so much more progress-wise if the ‘fence only’ crowd had just compromised. Their lose-lose position has been proven out. But instead we play defense on liberal policies instead of progress on conservative ones. But some prices are too high. I think we can play defence on lib policies for a while if we have to.
Retired Spook,
I agree with you 100%. As long as the Reps are the “live and let live” party they are superb. The problem is, as you noted, lack of experience. It is easy to say this will not work or that will not work. The challenge is saying what will work and be accepted. They aren’t there yet.
Plus many reps have taken on the Begala-Carville arrogance personna – which I abhor. They are just not that smart. By a long shot. Especially the TV and Radio talking heads.
I am not sure why they cannot rally together. Arrogance? Who knows. All I know is I stopped caring around Nov 10th.
This whole issue is a non-starter. Yes a few Repubs and a few Dems want border security. The vast majority of people want border security. 99% of the Politicians only want what will keep them in office. Right now that seems to be unlimited amnesty and citizenship for foreigners. Included in that is thousands of dollars in income tax credit refunds for all those people that haven’t been getting them(due to not filing) the strategy is to ‘buy’ all the votes they can. also make them eligible for social security that they have not paid into. When you read a story about an illegal alien being arrested for a major crime and hear that he had been arrested x times and released tells you all you want to know about whether anyone cares about the security of the country. Any new laws will not be enforced just as no laws in the past have been enforced. This may seem to be a Repub party issue, but to me it seems to be the lack of a law enforcement issue. If all the laws that are on the books today were enforced, no new ones would be necessary.
Now if anyone reads this as I want to get rid of illegal people by deporting them, they just can’t read. All I want is enforcement of all the laws pertaining to immigrants and citizenship that are on the books today, enforced. I want NO new laws, they wouldn’t be enforced anyhow. The People are going to remain in the majority whether they are Repub or Democrat as far as immigrant law enforcement goes. If they aren’t going to enforce the laws, repeal them and stop the sham.
AJ,
Prior to worrying about the illegals here now, first order of business should be to stop the flow of illegals into the country. The wall needs to be built first then we can deal with the illegas that are here. If there is a broken pipe in your house and it is flooding, the first thing most people would do would be to stop the water, then fix the pipe.
AJ
You make good points but you don’t ask the hard question for the anti comprehensive immigration reform folks.
Q: What’s your plan, and will it pass the congress and be supported by the public?
I think you’ll find they have no plan short of the proverbial “Round them up, send them home”, build a fence, cut off all services, or some other clap trap that sounds good but will never pass any Congress, or be supported by the American public.
The discussion ought to be, how stiff are the penalties going to be, how do we make sure the fines and other aspects are never “forgiven” and how do we start going after businesses that hire illegals once the provisions of the program are in place? While we’re working the illegal immigration problem, how are we planning to have expiated removal of criminal illegals who turn up in jails and other places, and what laws are we putting in place to go after aiding and abetting those criminals who have been expelled and return?
The hard cases on this issue have lost, get over it, now figure out how to get the best and strongest laws that we can instead of sitting on the sidelines kvetching.
Wer59,
We can walk and chew gum at the same time – sorry, no sale.
Steve_LA, the comprehensive plan is well documented. If you don’t know it by now that was a personal decision. Your pleading ignorance is not going to change my mind. You should know that by now.
FE,
You don’t understand the meaning of ‘amnesty’. Right now the utterance of that stupidly misused word puts that person in the “I could care less what they think, they blew the Congress” category. Trust me when I say that word will kill the Reps. Since there are fines and punishments and retributions there is no amnesty in the guest worker program. To say otherwise is to demonstrate self destructive stubborness. Not a winning trait.
Enforcement:
A-Men! It seems if you are for the enforcement of the laws on the books now, somehow you are a bad guy in this debate. I am totally for enforcing existing laws, they seems good and fair. But I am also for a wall. It’s not because I’m against Immigration, to the contrary, I’m for it. But it has to be in a legal form. I keep hearing about those here Illegaly paying back taxes, and it makes me roll my eyes! If you can not determine when someone arrived, and started working ON THE BOOKS, how in the world can you determine the back taxes owed? There are so many working Under the Table, I’m clueless as to how to determine anything as to tax liability.
About a week ago I sent out an article about Births in New Orleans. It was probubly from the Times Pickiun, but not sure. Get this: Prior to Huricane Katrina the Hispanic Birth Rate in New Orleans was 2%. Care to gusss what it is today? Try 96%! That’s right, 96% of all births post Katrina are to Hispanics. My first thought was, how many are here legally?
This whole Amnesty Issue is depressing. We have a Cabarrus County Commisioner here that want’s to have all County Government forms printed in English. He thinks it will help them to Assimilate into Our Culture. But there is a lot of opposition, of course. But my area is not just an onclave of new Hispancs, we have a large Asian, Indian, African, etc. people living and working here. We don’t pander to them locally, but we are into Hispandering completely.
I do believe if we get an Amnesty bill, the Republican Party will be in the minority for another 40 years anyway. Looking at the Voting Paterns now, I can’t see why they would jump ship to the Reps.
Steve La:
What is wrong with the Current Laws? If enforced, they seem fine.
It’s like Gun Laws. Why do we need more? Enforce the laws we have now!
AJ.
You may have misunderstood what I posted.
My question was aimed at the hard core anti immigration folks, what plan they have, not what the comprehensive plan, the actual Senate bill contains. I also think there is negotiation room in the Senate bill for what the penalties are, how do we make sure those fines and penalties are enforced and not forgiven, etc etc.
SteveVVWS…You are correct about laws on the books, but if one person is breaking a law you can enforce it, if 12 million are breaking the law, what do you do? “Round them up, send them home”? You willing to pay for that in both law enforcement and court costs? I’m not.
Sorry Steve_LA, misunderstood. You and Stevevvs confuse me some days on who is who!
Stevevvs,
You clearly do not understand the laws on the books. People can jive the immigration system forever on appeals. Another thing that needs to be fixed. One strike and you are out, never to return. That of course would be for serious crimes.
AJ
No worries, here’s how you tell. I’m the Libertarian leaning Republican who argues with you on stem cells and other “Right to Life” issues. I’m usually in the Libertarian camp of “I want the Federal Governement to leave me alone” most of the time.
Aj,
“One Strick and your out, never to return” “That of course would be for serious crimes”
Dude, I’m in the real world. Many are deported for “Serious Crimes”, only to return, again and again. There was a article about 10 days ago about an Arizona cops daughter who was killed by a man from Mexico DEPORTED years ago. But get this: Despite being deported, he re-entered this time LEGALLY with a Green Card! Amazing, no?
I’ll try to re-find it. Meanwhile, check this snipit out!
New Orleans baby boom following Hurricane Katrina
By Emer Mullins
The large increase in babies being born to immigrants in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is putting maternity hospitals in that city under strain, The New York Times has reported.
Before the hurricane, only two per cent of patients were Hispanic. That figure is now 96 per cent. The maternity clinic, previously held two days a week, is now held five days a week.
Figures from the Louisiana Health and Population Survey in late 2006 showed the number of Hispanics in Orleans and Jefferson parishes had increased from 10,000 in 2004 to 60,000 in 2006, while the state’s total population fell by some 25 per cent.
Some Immigrants Arrested 6 Times
Washington Post ^ | Jan. 8,’07 | Lara Lakes Jordan
Immigrants arrested for being in the United States illegally may have been charged up to SIX more times, for more serious crimes, after they were released by local authorities, new Justice Department data indicate. Of the single group of 100, according to the audit, 73 immigrants were later arrested a collective of 429 times on charges ranging from traffic tickets to weapons and drug charges.
Once again, AJ has allowed his bias to taint his opinion on this oh, so important matter. No where does AJ mention that the RNC rules require that the “honorary chairman” be a member of the RNC, which Martinez is not. Nor does AJ mention that it is the RNC members of Bush’s own state that are dead set against Martinez (so much for Republicans marching lock step with the president).
Nor has any of the pro-amnesty (and yes, when you forgive a crime, no matter how minor or major the crime may be, it is still amnesty from that crime) explained how the new rules would be enforced. How do you prove how long an illegal has been in our nation if they were paid under the table. Nor does it address the absolute pandering to those who came here illegally by allowing them to pay only three of five years worth of back taxes (don’t you wish you could do that?) or giving them social security benefits by only paying into the system for 6 quarters when you have to pay into the system for 40 quarters? And apparently, the pro-amensty crowd seems to think that identity theft is OK if you are an illegal, white a punishable crime if you are an American.
No one wants to load illegals up on cattle cars, like so many Jews in Germany, to deport them. But take away the attraction to the United States that brings them here in the first place, and they will self-deport. Enforce the laws against employers who hire illegals. No social welfare benefits for those who do not belong here, except for emergency care for LIFE THREATENING illnesses. I guess everyone has forgotten the words of Barbara Jordan, who would now be considered a racist by the pro-illegal bunch.
Steve_LA says that you cannot enforce the violations of our laws committed by 12 million people because of the cost in both law enforcement and court costs. Perhaps Steve_LA would like to compare the cost of illegals we now have to pay from the taxpayer’s coffers as compared to enforcement of our laws. And would Steve_LA say the same thing if we were dealing with 12 million terrorists or 12 million pedophiles?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070116-122754-5361r.htm
Retire05,
My views are better than your stubborness and inability to view things outside your world. Bias? Dude – it’s a political position.
And my math is solid. Lose FL and lose the Presidency for decades. Wrap that up in your little (and irrelevant) rule book. You feel better quoting rules on the path to the demise of the Reps? Go right ahead. Whatever sinks your boat.
And btw, two brave Border Patrol officers are set to start their prison terms today for doing their jobs.
Wonder how many new Border Patrol officers we will be able to recruite since they now realize that if they do their jobs, they are subject to going to prison? Wonder how many Border Patrol officers we will lose over this travesty of justice? What does it say when a BP officer has to ask the question “do I have to wait until I am shot before I can fire back?”