Dec 15 2006
Lugovoi Definitely Berezovsky Ally
I was going to add this in a long line of comments to answer someone’s question, and decided to make a post for everyone to find. Lugovoi was definitely an ally of Berezovsky’s – so the assassination theory seems a little more stretched than it was before. And it explains why Goldfarb first tried to divert suspicion from Lugovoi. Now that Lugovoi is a participating witness (prossibly under a plea agreement) Berezvosky’s mouth piece is having to change tactics. Looks like everyman is now out for themselves in a battle that could put someone away for life. I am wondering more and more whether the Litvinenko incident and the spat of killings is really the preparation for some kind of coup d’etat in Russia.
So assassinologists, who did it – do you all agree on that as well?
I have no idea. It is clear that Shebalin was one of the masked FSB agents at the Litvinenko presser ; that he surely betrayed Litvinenko afterward, and that someone has claimed that an FSB Colonel at that presser was the assassin, we do not know if(a) that claim is sound, and (b) if Shebalin is the betrayer referred to
On the other hand ‘gotta know’, you might say bad things about a dead person if you were trying to distance yourself from him in the eyes of others. – I don’t see any of his friends disagreeing in the press anyway – nobody is calling him a genius for example (his books were a total flop), nobody is calling him a sophisticated entrepreneur who knew his way about in the world. Some are saying (the latest Shvets interview) that he knew his tradecraft – this is bs as he didn’t even vary his eating places – everybody knew he loved the sushi place. Everyone seems to discount the fact that his initial illness could have been food poisoning – sushi is not the safest thing to eat.
here’s another theory – Limarev said he believes “by 99%†that Litvinenko’s poisoning “was ordered and effected from Russia” although he did not believe that Putin “or any big chief of the government” was directly involved. He said he believes that Litvinenko was killed to frighten Kremlin critics and “to distance Putin from the West.”
A senior French counterterrorism official told The Associated Press that intelligence agencies throughout the continent are on “tenterhooks” and that “all of the warning lights are red,” though they have yet to uncover any specific plan for attack.
http://www.rep-am.com/story.php?id=16869
The threat is at its highest level,” said the French official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the secretive nature of his job. “All (security) services are on tenterhooks. And it’s not just us (in France). Work is under way everywhere but nothing concrete is emerging. Ends of the year are often bad. This year we haven’t managed to distinguish a precise plot.”
Those fears were echoed in Britain, already on edge after the failed August plot to bring down commercial jetliners over the Atlantic.
Crosspatch,
“He had no training, not much intellect and a tendency for provocation,†Mr Ivanov said. “His character was not rightâ€.
I doubt that he has no training. After all he managed somehow to get to Lieutenant Colonel position.
And to be Putin’s bodyguard.
“to distance Putin from the West”
This could be of benefit to certain interests in Russia and could be a motive.
Russia clearly has not acted like a ‘normal’ state in all of this.
“His character was not rightâ€. for the KGB – it is not necesarily an insult
“Russian authorities pulled hundreds of opposition activists off buses and trains and detained them along with scores of others on Saturday ahead of a rare anti-government rally in Moscow, organizers said.
The police action did not prevent more than 2,000 people from gathering in a central square, where leftist and liberal groups demanded that Russian President Vladimir Putin stop what they called Russia’s retreat from democracy.
“In 15 months political power will be changed,” said Mikhail Kasyanov, a former prime minister who is now an opposition leader, referring to the March 2008 presidential election.
“Next year everyone should make a personal decision about what to do with our country _ whether we allow these people to continue their illegal undertakings … or we finally make our main goal to build a democratic and socially oriented state,” Kasyanov told demonstrators.
Garry Kasparov, the former chess grand master who has emerged as one of the Kremlin’s most prominent critics, said the mere fact that the rally took place made it a success, given the efforts by authorities to stop it. ”
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/16/D8M239DG0.html
Drudge has links to photos of authorities arresting demonstrators.
Oy, Clarice. Half of russia is on the payrolls of the KGB. Nobody trusts anyone else at all. So “carting people off of trains?” Sometimes, junior would cart his own parents “off” because he was denied a piece of bread.
Daniel Pipe’s father, was a russian expert. And, he served in the Reagan administration. And, I was lucky enough to find one of his books. Which I enjoyed reading. In it he discussed being in Moscow when he was on a train. That came into the station. And, the doors wouldn’t open. Nobody got up to help. So he said: “If this was New York City, strangers would have forced the doors, apart. And, if this was Tel Aviv? Strangers would have ripped the doors out of their sockets.”
The point? In russia, no one trusted anyone else. That’s the flaw buried DEEP in the system. People use their eyes. They see. But they dare not speak. And, PRAVA, in russia is a brand of toilet paper.
“Everybody in the press and everybody who talks about any of the players has an agenda.”
We all see it from different angles, but that’s good, isn’t it? I find it weird that people claim there’s a storm of disinfo flying in from one side when they completely ignore the mudslinging going on from the other. That’s when I wonder about agendas. But hey, everybody — it’s coming in from all directions!
What I had not expected to find in this mess was somebody like Mikhail Trepashkin. I had not heard of him before, but in reading about him, discovered someone whom, with all my heart, I believe to be a genuine hero. One of those beacons of humanity who chooses the hardest way to live, and by doing that faces down something he knows is evil and corrupt — and that he is doing it out of love for his country, for his fellow Russians, for justice, for change — and it will probably kill him. I believe him completely.
And yes, I do know his web site is most likely Berezovsky-funded. (So gentlemen start your engines: Goldfarb! Disinformation!) May God bless Boris the Killer for that little bit of good, at least, even if it’s as small as the polonium that poisoned Alexander Litvinenko. If I sound like a sappy and naive bleeding-heart, sorry — Mikhail Trepashkin’s courage fills my heart, and his plight breaks it, all at once. There is probably nothing more compelling for me than having my heart broken from being over-full of love and admiration for someone. He is doing something I probably never could. Whatever happens in this mess, I will do something for Trepashkin.
But back to the poisoning.
I’m becoming more convinced of the assassination theory than the smuggling theory; I started out in the assassination camp, wobbled over to the smuggling theory, but am back here pretty firmly now. Oddly enough, a phrase in copydude’s blog was key for me, and clinched it in figuring out why (at least in a way that makes sense to me) the polonium’s all over the place: assassins are opportunists. When I stopped to think about it, and how I imagine an assassin would have to work, then I can see how multiple attempts would get a volatile radioactive substance — that nobody knows much about in using as a poison — all over the place. I think this was FSB, a rogue group. Shebalin may have directed it (badly) behind the scenes. Lugovoi, Sokolenko, and Kovtun were all involved. They did their best — probably better than most — but they were bunglers.
And for those who insist these cloak and dagger types are always professional and efficient, go Google “Oleg Lyalin,” how he was arrested for driving drunk, and find out what a mess that episode was… I laughed my butt off because it really was like something from a slapstick comedy.
Last, I don’t mind if I’m wrong — unless this ends up involving a bomb, and I don’t think that it will. I don’t need to be vindicated because I don’t think I could be — the thing I believe most firmly about this is that there will never be justice for Litvinenko because nothing will ever be proven. A handful of people will know what happened, and they may eventually show their cards. But if they do, everybody will probably argue about that new bit, too.
Thank you for reading all of this.
Thank you for writing it!
Here’s a theory that would make sense. Suppose The Russian Govt. knew nuclear goodies were being stolen and sold on the black market, and probably knew who was doing the stealing and selling but not all the individuals involved in the buying and reselling. What better way to to take care of all of them than to give them a leaky package or packages, and let it contaminate all of them. Everyone who handled it is obviously in on the deal. $50 million worth of PO 210 would probably be cheaper than tracking them down and taking them out one by one.
Momdear, that does not show a lot of respect for your fellow man, does it? Leaky containers with Po are very dangerous indeed.
Again, a bomb is not needed to make Po dangerous, something anyone can see from the LD50.
To clarify – any government that can be pinned down with this crime must be considered highly dangerous. It’s hard to believe that that could really be the case. Perhaps I’m naive, but it indicates an arrogance I don’t believe Russia can afford. But that does not mean that there isn’t someone tied to the government who is a high caliber sociopath, capable of this crime. Killing someone is of course vile in itself, but to jeopardize hundreds of unconnected, innocent people in the process….is something else.
There you go, you assassinologists. Pulling things out of the air. Why Shebalin? Why not any of the thousands of ex-KGB and present FSB agents in Russia? There is not a shred of proof that he was involved or any other Russian agent for that matter. You people have convinced yourselves that this is an assassination and think if you repeat it often enough among yourselves that it becomes true and/or convinces others.
Don’t you think if Litvinenko saw this guy in London he would have reported it? And to poison Litvinenko he had to get fairly close. I’m sure the other wait staff at the hotel would have noticed a stranger among them for a short time it took to serve tea. I’m sure they were questioned relentlessly.
And Mariposa, are you absolutely sure the Trepashkin letter is actually from him. I find it hard to believe that he could smuggle a letter out of prison and then talk to anyone after that. Maybe, Goldfarb and Bereszovsky just said it was a letter from him. And besides, since he is in prison how would he know what happened? Maybe this is just part of Goldfarb and Bereszovsky’s PR war. And on top of that, how would Limarev and Shveuts (?)know either. They are just guessing like the rest of us and shouldn’t be believed any more than we are.
And everybody doesn’t need to run away with the idea that Bereszovsky cares one iota about democracy in Russia. He only cares about the money he can make. This guy, along with the other oligarches, stole their wealth from the state and I do not doubt that they want back in power so they can steal some more. I have no sympathy for them and I’m sure their presence in England has strained relations between the two countries.
People don’t like Putin (I don’t like him myself), but be careful what you wish for. You might get someone even worse. Life is dangerous for people in Russia. I’m glad I don’t live there.
I wouldn’t doubt that polonium was used to kill Russians inside Russia. But if this is so then they learned that it took weeks to kill someone with this substance and is therefore unreliable. And an honest man would have co-operated with the authorities completely in order to find his killers. I realize that we only hear what the press tells us and most of that has been discounted, but the authorities seem to only have Lugovoi and Kovtun and maybe Solenko as the perpertrators. Luogovoi is a smart man. To have assassinated Litvinenko when he came to London to specifically meet him on numerous occassions he would have to be a fool because the finger would point directly at him.
Now you have decided that maybe it’s not Putin but some rogue agent attached to the government. The only known place that I have read about that Litvinenko went to on a regular basis is the sushi bar and we know he was not “assassinated” there. We have heard nothing about him being in the Millenium bar before. This would be a chance “assassination”? Since the “assassin” would have to be extremely fast on his feet in order to get a wait staff uniform, poison the tea, bully his way to the table before the other wait staff and get away without anyone noticing would be a real feat. For one thing the wait staff assigned to that table would have noticed. We know he had to have been poisoned before the sushi bar because he contaminated the table there and the only other place that we know of would be tea that morning with Lugovoi and Kovtun at the Millenium bar or in room 411 where it has not been proved he did not go.
This whole case reminds me of the Keystone Kops. All participants running around contaminating everything everywhere they went. It is true comedy of errors. And if this turns out to be an assassination then this assassin should be written up in the Guiness Book of Records as the most stupid, inefficient and bumbling assassin of all time.
Lostin the drift
We have in our govenment stupid bumbling fools who make tremendous errors on their own cognizance. Why would you think Russia would be any different? This would be entirely possible since the Russian government doesn’t really care about someone else’s life anyway.
Barbara, to quote the common parlance “you go girl”!
lizarde1
I can’t for the life of me see how he could have been assassinated. Everyone is ignoring the fact that these three guys were tracking polonium all over the place in UK, Germany and Russia for at least three weeks before Litvinenko got sick. He was a suspicious guy and trusted no one. I doubt if anyone could sneak up on him without him knowing.
The assassinologists are making it sound that the assassin followed Litvinenko around London like a little puppy dog for three weeks trying to find an opportunity to kill him all the while contaminating Litvinenko, Lugovoi, Kovtun and half of London. It makes no sense. Maybe he was as blind as a bat. Every hotel these three guys stayed at was contaminated….one badly. How does anyone explain this? Did this mysterious FSB agent go to all the rooms and follow these three guys around sprinkling all of them with polonium like it was the rites of spring?