Apr 11 2012

Justice Served In Trayvon Martin Case

Published by at 6:08 pm under All General Discussions,Trayvon Martin Case

Yes, this the Trayvon Martin killing is a complex and tragic case. As I predicted when first posting on this matter, it was clear charges were coming since George Zimmerman had plenty of off-ramps to avoid the confrontation and the end result. This is the right path to take. This will shut down the nonsense from far right and far right, and allow the rules of evidence and trial to work the proper conclusion.

I was very surprised the charge was 2nd degree murder (I was expecting a lesser charge) but that only confirms my original suspicion that the evidence was much clearer than many suspected it was.

Now we follow the process for justice, and as the prosecutor said – Trayvon Martin is the victim here, not Zimmerman.

Update: This is clearly the form of 2nd Degree Murder being used in the charge:

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

As I have said many times, Zimmerman had not authority or right to follow and confront Martin while armed. This was not a race crime, but a crime of someone playing vigilante and ignoring warnings by police to avoid a situation. And that is a ‘depraved mind’ in my book.

Update 2: Watching the National Action Network with Al Sharpton and Attorney Crump I have to applaud their statements. They were measured, humbled and focused on bringing American justice for an American child. As Crump noted, it really is for all the young people we needed to take the time to assess the evidence and do what is right. And as Sharpton said, this is not a celebration, simply one successful step in the right direction. Well done folks. And well done for all those calling for calm and allowing the process to run.

Update 3: I expected a little more discussion from Hot Air on this, but their one post on this is here.

Maybe there is hope for this nation and all its people. God’s Speed Trayvon

64 responses so far

64 Responses to “Justice Served In Trayvon Martin Case”

  1. jan says:

    I just read the formal charges laid out against Zimmerman. It is as you say, Redteam, a one-sided explanation of the events as laid out by Martin’s Mom and his girlfriend. No where is Zimmerman’s side of the story relayed, nor are any of the witness’s observations of the fight included. I don’t really know the proper construction of such a legal affidavit. But, from my POV it reads very one-way.

    Ironically, Dershowitz keeps saying that the charging instrument filed against George Zimmerman is unethical and will never make it past a judge.

    If his reading on this case has any merit, I wonder if the arrest and charging of Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder was no more than legal theatre, in order to quell any racial unrest or talk of no justice in the Martin case, considering all the press and publicity this killing has generated.

  2. jan says:

    I was listening to a prosecutor commenting on how this case was being conducted. He said a prosecutor never meets with the family first, unless they had some vital evidence to offer, before a decision was made to press charges, as it simply blows their objectivity.

    Praying with Trayvon’s parents, too, has been questioned as to whether a line was crossed between church and state. It also seems prejudicial to pray with one family member and not the other, as there are still questions as to who instigated the first physical contact.

  3. momdear1 says:

    Alan Derkowitz says he has read the indictiment papers and they will not stand up in court. He expects the judge to toss out the indictment at the preliminary hearing. Says it quotes Treyvon’s mother as saying the voice calling for help on the taped 911 call is Treyvon’s but fails to mention the witness who said the man on the bottom in the red shirt (Zimmerman) was calling for help. It also fails to mention the grass stains on the back of Zimmerman’s shirt and the blood on the back of his head and his broken nose. He opined that it looks like this “special” prosecutor is bucking for a judicial appointment .

  4. Redteam says:

    Let’s hope she doesn’t get it, complete incompetence should not be rewarded. Surely the state of Florida prefers judges with ability. I’m just baffled, all of us on this site have heard a lot more ‘evidence’ , it seems as if the prosecutor decided none of it could be used in court so she didn’t include it. I believe that as a minimum there should be at least one item included in the affidavit that would tend to be at least pointing toward the person having charges being brought. I see nothing that I would consider if I were on the jury. He said she said doesn’t cut it.

  5. Layman says:


    Indictments are always a one-sided explanation of events. It is the prosecutors job to spell out the case AGAINST the defendant. Once they hit the preliminary hearing the defense will move to throw out the charges and the prosecutor will claim that there is reasonable cause to move forward. It’s all part of the game. The prosecutor doesn’t even have to show all her cards at this point of the game. Discovery is not required until after the case has been moved to a trial. To those who feel some degree of sympathy with Zimmerman it stimks, but on the other hand would you want Zimmerman’s lawyer making the prosecution’s case for them?

  6. WWS says:

    Dershowitz is correct, the charging instrument is deeply flawed. The only thing that might save it is that the prosecutor has the right to supplement it (basically, edit and rewrite it) before the Judge has to rule.

    It’s not just that the indictment is a one sided explanation of events, Layman. There are also several technical requirements that *every* indictment must have, but this one doesn’t even get over that rudimentary bar. Basically, if this kind of thing was turned in on a law school exam, this would be an automatic F. The instrument, as written, is an embarrassment.

    So why would a prosecutor do such a bad job? One explanation is incompetence, but I think a far more likely explanation is found in this simple fact: In just over 6 months, this prosecutor is running for re-election in a minority-heavy district. What’s your conclusion? Might it be that the Prosecutor wants to be able to say “Yeah, I charged him with as much as I could, but that damned honkey judge threw the whole thing out!!! Vote for Me!!!”

    (anyone still wish to say “justice was served” by this mess?)

  7. WWS says:

    heh – first judge up is already trying to find a way to squirm out of having to make the decision. This is what judges do when they know they’re about to be forced into making a ruling that is going to make them real unpopular:


    When you were a kid, you called this game “Hot Potato!!!”

  8. Redteam says:

    Yes, none of them want to have to uphold or condone the ‘F’ affidavit. I just don’t understand how someone so incompetent has not displayed that incompetence before. You can’t be doing an excellent job and then ‘forget’ how to write an affidavit. Or can you? Imagine a judge on the bench having to make a ruling based on this ‘paper’. It’s like Obama’s secretary having to say what kind of a job she thinks Obama is doing. sometimes you just gotta lie, but on the bench is not the place to be doing that……
    It’sgetting more interesting by the minute….

  9. jan says:

    Pat Buchanan has a column posted in RCP entitled Obama’s Zimmerman Problem. In a fairly lengthy fashion he not only brings up conflicting problems with the case itself, but also why Obama’s initial involvement may prove troublesome for him during this election cycle.

    Where is Obama’s political problem?

    With the election on, the case has begun to divide the nation along racial lines. And Obama’s allies are doing it. It is Jesse Jackson and the Black Caucus crying that Trayvon was “hunted down like a rabid dog in the street,” that he was “murdered and martyred,” that it was a “hate crime.”

    “It’s a disgrace that man (Zimmerman) hasn’t been shot yet,” says Mike Tyson. The New Black Panther Party has put out a poster offering a $10,000 reward that reads, “Wanted: Dead or Alive.”

    The face on the poster is George Zimmerman.

    Trayvon is the victim here, but George Zimmerman is beginning to look like a victim — of lynch law and mob rule.

    With the Panthers and Tyson calling for vengeance and vigilante justice, where is Attorney General Eric Holder? Out congratulating Al Sharpton for bringing political pressure on Florida to indict.

    Is this how justice is advanced in Obama’s America?

    Also, Thanks Layman for your take on indictment against Zimmerman.

  10. Mata says:

    So this is where the sane people are hanging out… Haven’t visited in a while, AJ, but glad to see you are on the same page as I’ve been, doing minority opinion battle over at Flopping Aces.

    While I was surprised at the second degree murder charges, after reading the State’s standards of proof in Florida, I can see where they are going.

    In order to convict a defendant in Florida of Second-degree murder, the State of Florida must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1: The victim is dead;

    2: The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant;

    3: There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

    The “criminal act” reference in the statute must be a single event or series of related actions performed that created the dangerous conditions that led to the death.

    The “depraved mind without regard for human life” phrase means that the prosecutors believe that Zimmerman’s actions and decisions demonstrated a disregard for the potential damage to human life that his actions could cause.

    The comments about Zimmerman’s use of “these assholes” stops short of saying it was racial profiling, but indicates they may intend to prove that Zimmerman’s intent had malice, even if not racially based.

    It appears that the State’s case may be focusing less on the actual altercation than on the events that led up to the altercation.

    Zimmerman hung up the phone with the PD at 7:13:54 approx (per PD calllogs), which was about two minutes prior to the confrontation between the two (per end of girlfriend’s four minute call). While on the phone, he had moved 33 seconds away from his vehicle before stopping and finishing the call.

    It seems that the prosecutors are considering that he had ample time to take yet another “exit ramp” in that two minutes, and instead Zimmerman unwisely chose to disregard the dispatchers warnings and continue his search for Martin.

  11. WWS says:

    But Mata, the problem is that Florida’s “Stand your Ground” self defense statute specifically states that a man is NOT required to take an “exit ramp”, as you put it. The stand your ground law provides a specific statutory defense that charge, IF the shooter was actually the one who was physically attacked. (for the record – I’m not saying that I know what the facts of the case are, of course I don’t; just stating where the focus of the case needs to be)

    When you say that “the state’s case may be focusing less on the actual altercation than on what led up to it” I say YES! You’ve put your finger on it, and THAT is the fatal flaw in the charging instrument which has the potential to destroy the prosecutions case!

    You see, EVERYTHING depends on the actual altercation, not what led up to it. THAT has to be the focus of the case, and here’s why: if Zimmermann initiated the physical confrontation, then he is guilty and should be convicted, BUT if Trayvon initiated the confrontation, then the Self Defense statute provides an almost unbreakable statutory defense to the charges. (remember, very few states have a self defense statute as far reaching as Florida’s.)

    So what this tells you is that the prosecution HAS to focus on the altercation – that is where these charges either succeed or fail. Trying to gloss over what happened in that fight or pretend it is not important is a guaranteed failure for the prosecutor, and a sign here right at the outset that the case against Zimmermann is very, very weak.

  12. Redteam says:

    And therefore the problem is that there is no indication in the affidavit that the prosecution has any clue as to who initiated the altercation, which is exactly why, based on that, there should never have been a charge made. A minimum requirement should be that there be some indication that they know who initiated it.

  13. jan says:

    Very good points, WWS and Redteam.

    More questions and concerns about the legitimacy of pertinent content in the affidavit issued against Zimmerman are being put forth.

    John Lott has written about such doubts, this time expressing them as to where’s the probable cause?

    The charges brought against George Zimmerman sure look like prosecutorial misconduct. The case as put forward by the prosecutor in the “affidavit of probable cause” is startlingly weak. As a former chief economist at the U.S. Sentencing Commission, I have read a number of such affidavits, and cannot recall one lacking so much relevant information. The prosecutor has most likely deliberately overcharged, hoping to intimidate Zimmerman into agreeing to a plea bargain. If this case goes to trial, Zimmerman will almost definitely be found “not guilty” on the charge of second-degree murder.

    He lays out his case quite succinctly, too.

  14. WWS says:

    a good writeup of the specific flaws in the charging instrument here:



    “I spent twenty years working Colorado law enforcement, followed by nearly two years as an investigator for the Colorado State Public Defender’s Office. Ten of my twenty-two years in the criminal justice arena were in the area of criminal investigations, complex and simple. I just read the arrest affidavit in the Florida v. George Zimmerman case. I’m pretty certain that I would have been laughed out of any judge’s chambers in Colorado had I brought in a piece of evidentiary matter so poorly written. The Zimmerman affidavit is so deficient in properly sourced factual information and full of unsubstantiated, unsourced conclusions that I am appalled that a state’s attorney would even give it a second look. I don’t know what’s going on in the Florida Courts. But where I worked as a cop, all summaries of statements from eye- and earwitnesses, whether inculpatory or exculpatory, had to be both sourced and included in a properly assembled arrest affidavit.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/problems_with_the_zimmerman_affidavit.html#ixzz1s1lq9Qtw

  15. AJStrata says:

    Sorry folks, but if you think the affidavit is going to stop this case going to court your being a tad naive. The real evidence has been reviewed, probably by the judge already. The state is not required to tip their hand.

    Some of the discussions here are a bit silly. Professional law enforcement do not play games. There is some strategy, but it has to be contained with boundaries which preclude abuse of powers.

    Some prosecutors do get away with it – especially at the federal level. But it is not the norm – just the most reported.

    As the affidavit states (and as I said from the beginning) Zimmerman arrived to the scene with a bad attitude. He jumped to conclusions, got angry over innocent events, scared a young man/older child and got in over his head. I think it is clear Zimmerman never backed off at any of the numerous off ramps available to him.

    His misplaced anger pushed for confrontation, and being armed ensured he would have no hesitancy in pushing as far as he wanted.

    I still fail to see any reason to jump to Zimmerman’s defense (outside the reaction to the far left). In my mind the blind defenders of Zimmerman are as blind as those who claim this is a racially motivated attack. Neither is true.

  16. jan says:


    Because people are doubtful about who instigated the physical fight (which would be an important part of interpreting how much the Stand Your Ground law would apply in this situation) doesn’t mean they are jumping to Zimmerman’s defense.

    In some ways, it seems like you are more fixated on Zimmerman’s guilt than anything else. Saying Zimmerman “arrived at the scene with a bad attitude,” for one thing, is kind of coloring his state of mind with your own interpretation, isn’t it? The fact of the matter is that the immediate community had been having a rash of break-ins, right? So, if a stranger was spotted in the neighborhood, it might stand to reason that a resident watchdog would be suspicious. I don’t think that would necessarily be classified as a ‘bad’ attitude, just a leary one.

    It is also not clear if Zimmerman did or did not back off from his pursuit. The recorded conversation with the 911 operative was an ‘ok’ from Zimmerman when he was told not to follow. Did he go back to his vehicle, and then was confronted and hit by Trayvon…or, did he continue after the youth, trying to see what he was up to, which eventually led to a altercation between the two men? There are conflicting stories about this, as well as which man was calling for ‘help.’ Was it Zimmerman, as witnesses said who identified the guy with the red shirt being on the ground, or Trayvon, as his mother said, simply by identifying the recorded distressed voice on the tape? It has also been said that Trayvon was shot close-range in the chest, and found face down on the ground. Now if Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, this would likely be the position he would have fallen, after being shot. If Trayvon was the one being beaten up on the ground, he most likely would have been found face up, wouldn’t he?

    Some of the discussions that you term as ‘silly,’ are simplying ones discussing and posting articles by some pretty informed people, in the know about legal proceedings (unlike me), who also think the affidavit was sloppy, over-the-top in being 2nd degree murder, and not done in a professional manner they were accustom in seeing or doing themselves, during their own careers.

  17. lurker9876 says:

    I think this whole thing is very politically influenced. A bad affidavit…poorly written with scant evidence altogether. Very unconvincing. I’m not sure that justice is served for both sides.

    BTW, I watched a really animal seizure case in Maryland gone bad. The county and rescue operations were so corrupted as they have already learned to hype up things to increase their donations.

    I’ve seen enough after this major case plus some to be very skeptical of this Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman case. Don’t trust the government. I believe that Angela Corey was under intense pressure to charge Zimmerman and had to find something to charge him with. I’m sure Zimmerman does not have enough money so will be forced to plea bargain to manslaughter even if he was innocent.

    This is a case that nobody wins.

  18. Redteam says:

    Lurker, Zimmerman doesn’t have to worry about the cost of defending himself, if he can’t afford an attorney, one will be appointed for him and if that one is one tenth as competent as Angela Corey, he should be walking free very soon.
    jan, I agree that we know nothing of Zimmerman’s attitude, we can only surmise. We certainly do not know who pursued who or who initiated the confrontation, and it is very clear that Angela Corey doesn’t have a clue. She is clearly acting to try to satisfy the lynch mob that is clamoring for a hanging. Her only problem appears to be that she is so incompetent that she will likely play right into the hands of the mob because there is little doubt that Zimmerman will be turned loose and the mob will rise up.
    While I still don’t know the facts of the case and don’t know who is guilty, the special prosecutor appears to be even more in the dark than I am and will only totally blow any case she may try to make..
    I think the standard for guilt is a little more than, well, I think he might be guilty based on what his girlfriend thinks. That basically is her case. Pathetic…….

  19. jan says:


    Somewhere I heard that Angela Corey is running for reelection, and that she might be playing into the good graces of a constituency who will see her favorably, giving her their vote.

    While I agree a young man is dead, and such a tragedy should be treated seriously and fairly, I don’t think succumbing to the demands of a mob or a slanted media is the way to go about processing this killing.

    I also recall Trayvon Martin’s mother being interviewed saying, while she was glad Zimmerman was formally arrested and charged, she wouldn’t be happy until he had been convicted of the murder. I would think she would want to find out what really happened before she made these kind of statements.

  20. Redteam says:

    jan, I agree. I don’t credit Corey with planning anything or deliberately going down a road that no one wants her to go. I just think she stumbled into it through total incompetence and putting more thought into her re-election than into this important case. I think she has gone down the path she did, thinking she just had to phone it in and get re-elected and everyone would be fat, dumb and happy.
    I have nothing but sympathy for the mother of a young person that has been killed for whatever reason, through his fault or someone else.
    I’m sure she feels that the fault lies with the person that killed him so she won’t be content until he has to pay. I’m sure I would feel the same way.
    I feel sorry for her that such an incompetent person got appointed to get her the justice she wants and now her chances of being content due to a conviction are somewhere between slim and none.
    No matter how naive we are, if you look in the dictionary for naive, you may well find Angela Corey, because thinking she can get any conviction based on the testimony of what Trayvon’s girlfriend said they talked about on a telephone can only be termed naive.