May 17 2006

Olive Branches Springing Up Everywhere

Published by at 11:57 am under All General Discussions,Illegal Immigration

Seems the fevered tempest over immigration may finally be abating on the right.  There are too many posts to link to so I will just link to the latest one I read concerning the new perspective.  It seems the over the top anger by some has finally forged a coalition of common sense.  Rick Moran has a great piece up describing a path forward.

Is it possible to find a middle ground on the right in the immigration debate that can unite both sides and forestall the eventuality of schism and holy war that would lead to disaster at the polls in November for Republicans?

Perhaps. If people were to get off their haunches and sit down like the friendly, rational, adults that we truly are, it may not be too late to salvage something from this mess. Let’s examine what we have in common before looking at where we part company.

My only quibble (and it is only a quibble) is he (and Tony Blankley who he references) attempt to imply there needs to be an order.  Do this ‘first’ kind of talk.  My suggestion is to jettison that concept right away.  We need to pass a comprehensive package and get it all started.

Each plank in the plan will have things that need to be accomplished and they need to be done in parallel.  Each will take time. I would guess we could build the fence and barriers along the border before we can get the guest worker program up and the 12 million undocumented workers checked and documented.  But don’t kid yourselves.  All of this will take years to do.  President Bush will definitely leave office with all these efforts in progress.  Don’t worry about the order, get them all started so we can get them done as soon as possible.

50 responses so far

50 Responses to “Olive Branches Springing Up Everywhere”

  1. crosspatch says:

    Seems that the UK is having much the same discussion as we are.

  2. crosspatch says:

    When it comes time for them to collect Social Security, they will drain the fund of more dollars than they have paid into it.

    Which is *exactly* what the baby boomers are going to start doing in about 5 years time. That’s why we need the *legal* immigrant labor.

    So while you work 30 years to collect a check, they will be fully vested in only 10 years and eligible for reduced benefits in just five years.

    I am not following your logic here. Most of the ones climbing across the borders aren’t old. Most are in their 20’s and 30’s who will be working 30 or more years.

    You think most came here to work. Then explain to me why there has been such a sharp increase in the crime rate in the border states where there is a high illegal population.

    Same reason there was a high crime rate when the Irish arrived and when the Italians arrived in their ghettos. You had people taking advantage of other people who are afraid to call the police. The Irish solved the problem by *becoming* the police. Legalizing those folks will remove the reason their fear contact with the law and will allow them to take an active role in fighting crimes in their communities. People from most central and south American countries have already grown up with a fear of the police. That combined with their illegal status just about guarantees they won’t call the cops. It also makes them more likely to join gangs for “protection”. The crime rate isn’t high just because they are Mexicans or Honduran or El Salvadorian. The crime rate is high because they are afraid to work with the community to fight it.

    Again I am hearing you use the same arguments that were used against the Irish and Italians when they came to this country.

  3. crosspatch says:

    Oh, and the Chinese, too, suffered many of those problems and to some extent still do. There are a lot of Chinese illegals around San Francisco. The illegals are often the victims of crime. Afraid to use the banking system because they have no social security numbers they often keep their cash in their homes and are the victims of home invasion robbery.

  4. retire05 says:

    Crosspatch, so you are going to create a problem (illegals who now are legally paying into SS that will never pay enough to cover the cost of their own benefits) to solve another problem? Oh, yeah, that is the kind of logic I want to subscribe to.
    Did you read the information I provided on the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement? Here is your first mistake, along with all others who think that, once here, no one would ever want to leave, these illegals, now legals, do not want to stay. I have never, I repeat, NEVER, talked to any illegal that wants to stay. They want to work here 5-10 years and go back to Mexico where they can live cheaper and better than they can here due to the low cost of living there. But after 5 years, they would be eligible for reduced SS benefits when they reach retirement age, or when they can get a crooked Mexican doctor to declare them disabled, which ever comes first. Why are you and others so conceited that you think that everyone wants to live here? Do you not think that others can have the same love for their nation as we do and they just want what we can provide for them on a temporary basis so they can live well in their own nation?
    No, crosspatch, legalizing them won’t change the crime. They have grown up with crime. Corruption is rampant in Mexico. It is a way of life. You are in as much denial as the battered wife who thinks if she is nice enough to her husband he will quit beating her. She is wrong. You are wrong.

  5. crosspatch says:

    (illegals who now are legally paying into SS that will never pay enough to cover the cost of their own benefits)

    You aren’t ever going to pay as much into the system as you are likely to draw, what makes you so special, or me for that matter? If they work their adult life and pay into the system, they are just as entitled to their benefit as you and I are. Hell, my cousin works “under the table” while he is in college and he is white as Wonder Bread and he is going to collect his benefit when he retires too.

    I think you just don’t like foreigners. At least that is the impression I am getting.

    Forget the immigration act for a moment and tell me how in the heck we are going to pay for a 100% increase in retirees with only a 13% increase in workforce (which includes the present immigration rate).

  6. crosspatch says:

    Oh, and by the way, if anyone here has a mind to and has the means available, you might want to go to the website of the opponent of Rep. John Murtha (Dips**t-PA) and make a donation. Dana Irey is a Republican women who has decided to take on Murtha. I am not a PA voter but I can make a donation, and I did.

  7. Kitty Litter says:


    Good news for a change …
    Olive Branches Springing Up Everywhere: Seems the fevered tempest over immigration may finally be abating on the right…. All of this will take years to do. President Bush will definitely leave office with all these effor…..

  8. pull says:

    In 1953 the populaton of China was 500 million. Today it’s 1.5 billion and growing. If the proposed solutions to our immigration problems increase our population by 200 million within a few years, as predicted, we will be where China was 50 years ago. is this what we want for our children and grandchildren? The simple fact is that we cannot allow everyone who wants to immigrate to the US to come here. If we tell all the illegals that they are no longer welcome here, cut off all aid and levy big fines against all who aid and abet (hire, encourage, assist, etc.) them, they will go home the same way they got here. if they can hire Cayotees to get them here they can hire them to take them back.

    Well, the problem with China is not that they have so many people. They killed off some 30 million a few decades ago in a forced Communist famine. They killed off more in various major crackdowns like the “Cultural Revolution”.

    The problem with China is they are Communist.

    How is that not obvious to everyone? Should any American, much less a conservative be unfamiliar with that?

    Did Communism work in the Soviet Union? In Eastern Europe? In Cuba? In Ethiopia? In Cambodia? In Vietnam? In North Korea? Anywhere else? It never works. It is moronic political theory encased in intellectual and moral pretensions… only the weak minded who crave for power fall for it.

    You can destroy any country with Communism.

    You can destroy any country with other forms of depravity. Islamism works. Fascism of various kinds work.

    It is true, if we do not regulate people coming in we will find ourselves being destroyed because they will bring their barbaric corruption with them. We see this happening in European countries who have professed excess liberality… while in reality they have been excessive bigots. Multi-cultural ideas do not work. This does not mean that we should fail to embrace the Christian liberality which makes this country and the entire free world strong. But, we should not pretend that evil is equal to good.

    People should be allowed to become citizens after stating some important beliefs. They should take english lessons. They must, by necessity, be willing to accept a very simple thing in America and stand by it: our liberality.

    If you are Communist and you come here and do not accept religions or other political beliefs as having a right to exist… do not come here.

    If you are Islamist and you come here and do not accept other religions or other political beliefs as having a right to exist… do no come here.

    If you believe that the US government is evil and should be overthrown, do not come here.

    These are not outrageous things to ask. They are sane and simple… and merely require enforcing of current sane laws. Those groups who declare themselves at war with the US – within the US – should be arrested or exported. Those who threaten bodily harm within the US (specifically because of their political or religious beliefs) should be deported or imprisoned. Simple.

    But this is not the way things are today. Radical organizations of all stripes (Islamist, Far Left, Nazi, etc) today profess these things on our soil… and we continue to allow them to exist despite the fact that these things clearly go far beyond any reasonable definition of “free speech” or “free religion”.

  9. Whilom says:

    Why do the pro-amnesty people demand “comprehensive” immigration reform with enforcement, guest-worker program, and “path to citizenship” enacted simultaneously? The reason is clear, and those who oppose amnesty understand it: Enforcement will get a wink-wink-nudge-nudge while the tidal wave keeps coming, even heightening to tsunami size. As the drama unfolds in the Senate, the conference committee, and the House, I think conservatives will work their way to the most reasonable compromise — This year enact strong enforcement measures and a guest-worker program along the lines passed May 17 in the Senate. Develop those programs and return to a search for tolerable compromise on “path to citizenship” after the 2008 election. Otherwise, we may witness the spectacle of the president using Democrats and liberal Republicans to defeat the Republican party base on the House floor, presaging loss of the House in November.

  10. granmary says:

    I just got home about an hour ago. I saw on the news that an ammendment to block illegal immigrants from counting the years they had worked in the U.S. illegally toward their Social Security benefits had failed, & they will probably get to count their illegal status & get SS benefits. Here is a nice little comparison for you. My husband served in the navy during the Vietnam Era, though he was never in Vietnam. He later worked 20 years for a city in NY, first two as a cop then 18 as a fireman. He retired after 20 yrs. & we moved to another state, where he became employed as a fire inspector for another city. This city’s fire dept. had opted out of the social security system, as municipalities may do, if they choose. He worked here for for another 10 years. After all, he reasoned, he had already fulfilled his required amount of years in the system.Then he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. The cause of which, was found to be a pituitary tumor, pressing on the gland that controls human growth hormone. Too much of this over the years [ he had no symptoms until right before the diagnosis] had enlarged the heart, damaged 3 sides of the heart, as if he had had 3 heart attacks. surgery removed the tumor, but the heart damage was done. So at age 52 he was disabled. He applied for SS disability, and the medical portion was approved immediately. Great, right? Wrong, because it had been over 10 years since he had paid into the system, he was denied benefits. Yes he had paid in for more than 20 yrs. but that didn’t overcome the technicality. Then, in Nov. of ’04 he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. Esophageal cancer is one of the few medical conditions that gets SS Disability approval immediately. However, the “hasn’t paid into SS in the last 10 yrs.” technicality still disqualifies this U.S. citizen who paid in for 20 plus yrs. Today, I was at the hospital all day while he had a defibrilator/pacemaker installed. This will hopefully keep him from suffering sudden cardiac death. I don’t think I will tell him that our government officials showed such compassion today for illegal immigrants. He will be 58 yrs. old this August, & so must wait for 4 more years to be treated as well as an illegal alien. I don’t feel like being compassionate enough to deem them illegal “immigrants” anymore. Fifty eight years old, three life-threatening illnesses, hundreds of thousands of medical bills, & a U.S. citizen who has paid his dues, is not worthy of getting treated as compassionately as illegal aliens in the eyes of our govt.