Jun 27 2007
Save The GOP Or Save America?
Update: As if to prove my point about the vitriol spewing from the GOP, someone I admired for a long time has jumped the shark and proven what I said below.
Today the MSM announced that yet another Republican has jumped ship and called for retreat from the war in Iraq.
…
Senator Lugar (channeling John Kerry) is a RINO and thus only a Republican because he can’t get elected as a Democrat (which in this day and age is noteworthy).
That is no way to hold a coalition togethet and it is NOT a public service to ridicule people we needed to keep the troops funded. The white hot anger of the far right is pushing people out of the GOP and out of supporting the biggest responsibilities we have as a nation and to our fighting men and women. The corrosive nature of the far right is spilling out beyond immigration – it now threatens our troops. We cannot keep self destructing like this. Someone needs to ban the phrase “RINO” from the GOP.– end update
Cold political calculation is an ugly thing in America. It usually means desparate self preservation at a cost to others. Here is the perfect example of why this kind of strategy is so bad:
Will George W. Bush try to steal a page from Richard Nixon and, reading the handwriting on the wall after a dismal showing in the congressional elections, begin to pull troops out of Iraq by the end of the year? If he does, will it save the Republican Party?
George Bush doesn’t think in such crass partisan terms. Too many consultants who surround politicians sadly do. There is no salvation down this path. But this might explain some recent comments by Senators Lugar and Voinovich. Both men have now lost their spine and convictions on the Iraq war. In Lugar’s case it may be fall out from the immigration debate (and if so he is truly a dishonorable person). Lugar is very much in favor of the comprehensive immigration bill. And after ‘the base’ (al-Qaeda in Arabic – the irony of it all) went on their scortched Earth drive they may have made Lugar’s support to all things Bush too much. Voinovich seems to be in the same situation – pro immigration reform and most likely getting pummeled by the hysterical talking heads.
This just too disheartening to watch. The divisive nature of the immigration opponents is corrosive and is fracturing GOP resolve. And it will be our troops who pay in the end. Because they are the ones out there fighting and dying for a success which is not back in reach, but they need a strong and united GOP to make all their sacrifices worthwhile.
The rhetoric of “traitor” and “quisling” was always over the top and uncalled for. People have reasonable differing views on immigration. Mine, as I have stated, is based on culling out the hardened criminals here ASAP before they can be recruited by al-Qaeda. Minutiae like provisional status during processing and myths about criminal records checks have never risen to the level to make me divert from the need to reduce our risks from inside our country. In response to these reasonable views I have been called a traitor who thinks on a 5th grade level. OK, I could care less about those comments. But a politician needs to reflect their constituents to stay in office. So all those cries of shoving a bad bill down the throats of America may have backfired as the SAME argument can be made about shoving a tough war down the throats of a non-supportive America.
The wheels are coming off this country thanks to hotheads and those out for self preservation. And the GOP is now crumbling due to the infighting. For the first time in decades I have my doubts this country can pull itself back together again. It is all mob-mentality all the time now.
Update: The GOP is pulling up its stakes on the Iraq war as the far right continues to bash our President and destroy his support.
Anti-war sentiment among Republican poll respondents has suddenly increased with 38 percent of Republicans now saying they oppose the war.
The amnesty hypochondriacs have lost all perspective on the broader issues they are not even thinking about their latest talking points. Hannity and others are upset about a backroom deal being shoved down their throats in opposition to public opinion. A statement and tactic that reflects the current mood surrounding the Iraq war. We do not govern by polls and popular (transient) opinions. Look at the mess CA is in with their referendums. We elect people to do what is right, even when ‘we the people’ might be wrong. And ‘we the people’ have been wrong many, many times. True Americans show their love of country in debating in a civil, respectable manner, and then honoring the process WHEN THEY LOSE.
Being a patriot is easy when the debates go your way. But true patriots shine in how they lose. Those who lost the vote yesterday and cried ‘treason’ where not patriots – they were abysmally sore losers. And they are destroying the GOP and what it NEEDs to stand for. Including the successful conclusion of the Iraq war. I suspect we will see comments from the far right saying they would rather lose Iraq than lose on ‘amnesty’. That is the depth of their obsession and hate.
AJ
But don’t forget! You are all for doing NOTHING about it.
Did you miss what I said above. I requote in case you missed it.
“I say this amnesty bill will work, I say let them all in and make them all legal. instantly. give it a chance.”
Like I said, if I were a criminal, i would be at the head of the line, knowing that in just 24 hours I would be permanently legal.
No, No. I’m all for it. instant legality, how could I have been missing the wisdom of it all for so long. Do away with the border, do away with the border patrol, go ahead and make anyone legal now, even before they get here. Hey, if it’s good for all that are already here illegally, think how good it would be for all those that come come legally if we just declared everyone in the world as legal. Wow, it’s wonderful how much my eyes have been opened
FE,
in 24 hours the convicts will be ID and out. And the provisional period is 18 months. But don’t let facts fly in the face of your paranoia!
That’s my plan. But not in the sense that you are using it. We can do that now, if we wanted to. The laws are on the books. And penalties are paid daily by employers all over America, if you want to consider $250 a penalty. They call it the price of doing business.
No Sue, you cannot because we don’t have the z-visas to identify those in the process or sanctioned to work here. The current laws are a disaster which BROUGHT us this mess.
No more fantasies about how all we need to do is use the laws. We have all heard that fairy tale enough. There is plenty of news stories about murderers not being booted and NO PROOF behind the claims. I would try and hold the purveyors of this myth to the same standard of proof demanded of the supporters but there is no point. They won’t and they can’t.
AJ…what’s going to happen if most of the current illegal population decides not to go along? In NYC that number is predicted to be more than half of them…who will simply remain illegal.
As I said before, in “that” regard, you end up with the same basic problem you started with….a barn load of illegals..and what do do with them.
Yes DC, those who do not play will give a challenge. But the laws around deportation will have been upgraded so as to make non-compliance a fast exit. So it will improve the system.
Of course, the chance the illegals will not all avoid the new process are between ‘slim’ and ‘none’. But thanks for pointing out the bill will NOT make things worse, even in the worse case.
Close – but no cigar! The corrected copy should read:
George Bush doesn’t think.
There you go – now you’ve got it right!
Oh George Bush thinks, all right. All you have to do is look at the way he has aged to know he thinks. And if not for the support of a lot of Democrats he would never have been able to send those people over there, the difference is he is the President…so he can’t just bail.
But then soothie and his new found friends on the ultra right are having a love fest now, extremes meet. How charming. Or perhaps I should say hatefest.
I live in Indiana, Lugar is a cautious man. He is the kind of man who will express grave concerns but probably will not ever vote for timetables for withdrawal. He will instead send signals and try to put pressure on the administration, but I will very much surprised if he turns into Hagel, he is not that kind of man. I guess we will find out.
But the surge is working, the problem is the enemy has nothing better to do than kill people. We have seen this in places like Gaza and Pakistan.
I don’t think we will pull everyone out anyway. The logistics of pulling out this many troops is complex, it would take a long time and if the enemy is not sufficiently weakened you could lose more people pulling your troops out than you would lose leaving them there.
Again, Soothie shows that he doesn’t personally know George W. Bush. (He was elected President, twice, in case you didn’t know that, soothie, and has a Harvard MBA, only president in history and a Yale degree. And you have done what in you life?)
And, tell me again what was John Kerry’s GPA at Yale?????
heh heh heh.
Strata
“This just too disheartening to watch. The divisive nature of the immigration opponents is corrosive and is fracturing GOP resolve. And it will be our troops who pay in the end.”
The Center Cannot Hold
But it will be the troops who are saved from death and maiming in a no-win war.
Rejoice!
AJ
FE, in 24 hours the convicts will be ID and out. And the provisional period is 18 months. But don’t let facts fly in the face of your paranoia!
As I said, if I were a really bad criminal, I would be at the head of the line to sign up with my fake name. Nothing will show up on the computer check within 24 hours (computer records won’t cover fake names) and I will have my PERMANENT LEGAL STATUS, that can not be revoked. Actually I would sign up several times with several fake names, just in case one got kicked out. Once legal, always legal, the ACLU will take care of all the free lawyers they need at US citizens expense. Paranoia or not, facts are facts.
If we already have all that data on all these bad people that are here now, why haven’t we already ‘outed’ them? Provisional period, I thought you dealt in facts, there is no provisional period in this bill. Once legal (after the 24 hour period) always legal. I’m sure you didn’t pluck that provisional period out of something you haven’t read, but hey, don’t let facts get in the way.
I don’t agree with El Presidente’s immigration policy at all, I wish he looked at it the same way he looks at Iraq.
Look, I understand perfectly what Bush is doing with Iraq, he is trying to plant a seed of democracy in the middle east where it is sorely needed. If people in the middle east decide that they like dressing the way they want, listening to Ipods, and speaking their mind, the radical mullahs of the world have to look for new employment. He is not just doing it out of good will, he can see as most intelligent people can, that if anyone could pull off the miracle of actually bringing freedom, democracy and captilism to the middle east, it would solve a LOT of the worlds problems in the future. I would differ with him on one point, he believes Islam is a rational legitimate religion, I think it is a death cult. But leaving that aside, if he suceeds, and there are many positive signs that he just might even if it is in some small way, he will have done something so important and so critical to the lives of everyone on this planet and the sad fact is that 9o percent of the Paris Hilton following morons will not get it. He has also already done something so significant and it seems almost nobody has noticed it. For the first time in centuries, the western world has fired a shot across the bow of stuck in the seventh century Islam and actually attacked a middle eastern country and said, we have had enough of your childish crap. Look at the effect that Reagan had when he did that to Quadaffi. I give the man much credit for his vision and his guts for trying
I just wish he would realize how much our neighbor to the south is a problem in some ways comparble to Iraq. It is a country out of control being run by criminals. It is racked with violence and corruption and although it has many natural resources, most of the people are living in poverty and being manipulated by a few radicals.
He does not seem to realize that there is never going to be a solution to the problems between Mexico and the US if he does not stop supporting the corrupt Mexican govt and force them to deal with their own people. If Bush spent as much time trying to bring democracy to Mexico as he does trying to bring it to Iraq, I would definitely be much more in agreement with him than I am now.
But he will still not lose my support on the war over Mexico. He just will never get my support on illegal immigration.
But thanks for pointing out the bill will NOT make things worse, even in the worse case.
Hahaha. Considering most people think it’s currently “very bad” and something needs to be done, are you not then implying that this particular bill isn’t going to make things any better?
Bush thinks?
As if. He signs whatever Cheney shoves in front of him.
Today Bush told the Arabs that Israel was the country he wants Iraq to emulate. Course he didn’t use the word “emulate.”
That’s the way to win more friends in Iraq!