Mar 02 2007

Libby Jury Has “Doubt”

Published by at 11:20 pm under All General Discussions,Plame Game

The jury deliberating the Scooter Libby case clearly have doubts regarding the prosecution’s claims, since they have asked for a definition of “reasonable doubt”:

Jurors asked for the definition of “reasonable doubt” Friday after completing a shortened, eighth day of deliberations Friday in the perjury trial of ex-White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby.
“We would like clarification of the term ‘reasonable doubt,'” jurors wrote. “Specifically, is it necessary for the government to present evidence that it is not humanly possible for someone not to recall an event in order to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.”

The question is basically how high is the burden of proof for the prosecution. In this case it is quite high, as some are apparently determining. And yes, in my opinion the government needs to prove it is impossible (if not infeasible) for the someone not to be able to recall details clearly and accurately to prove the opposite: there was a deliberate lie. The fact this is a question means the government did not make its case clearly and without hesitation. Some may want to believe there is no way for any other determination than a lie, but the government never once proved it, and in fact proved NO ONE had a clear and precise recollection. In fact, out of 8-9 reporters testifying only one claimed it was POSSIBLE Libby mentioned Plame without prompting. Right now it looks like dismissal or hung jury.

8 responses so far

8 Responses to “Libby Jury Has “Doubt””

  1. clarice says:

    I wish I could share your optimism. That question is poorly worded but misstates the burden of proof. OTOH it should make the judge restate the burden of proof AND memory instructions and establish it is reasonable to believe the govt did not meet it’s burden of proof.
    As to the jury’s first question–it relates to the Cooper issue–which everyone regards as the weakest part of the case. If this is still unresolved, I am getting somewhat spooked.
    Pray that whoever holds out stays holding out.

  2. lurker9876 says:

    I agree that the second question is so poorly worded. It appears that the jury is hung for the moment. But who knows what decisions they would end up. Regardless, I’m with Jane at the JOM site in her comments.

  3. Carol_Herman says:

    NOPE. I don’t think Libby’s jury has doubt. I think they’re a group stupid enough to buy, on impulse, red tee-shirts, to wear into court. And, then to come up with a group song. NOT VERY ENTERTAINING.

    I think this group has been co-opted by a “manager type.” Or someone with a soft credential at manipulation. So that with large flip charts, Post-It notes. And, string. What has been “woven together” is the verdict where they will come out with: GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS. And, they will defend themselves by saying “Libby Gamed the System.”

    Who cares? This ball has always been in Bush’s court. And, Bush is way too weak to take on anybody with an iota of intelligence. Rove is not a “genius,” but a political junky.

    And, Bush won’t do a thing for Libby. Why should he care? He grew up a rich man; thinking he deserves all that he can acquire. Just like algore. And, neither man was ever up to the job. Where the president’s job is to influence most of the American people. And, to get them BEHIND HIM.

    The jerkiest thing Bush did? Was to squander the money that Clinton left in, as OUR surplus. (At least the conservatives know this.)

    Bush has tried to peddle his way to success. But he can’t even give reasonable reasons. So he stays enscounced in his “palace.” When he leaves? He’ll get a hat. Just like his dad. But as a president? He ain’t worth much.

    And, he’s still being controlled by the HOUSE OF SAUD. So, he’s also managed to hurt, not just our country’s SAVINGS, but our volunteer army, as well. That he inherited sloth? You bet he did! It ties up the state department and it ties up both the FBI and the CIA.

    Was there a plot to unseat this president? Yes. Designed, actually, by plame, herself. Her lying husband. With the cooperation of the press. And, pushed by George Tenet, who really wanted to screw this president BIG TIME. Not only that, Tenet, and Colin Powell, and Armitage have never changed their minds about this stinking LYING story that now has a Jew who is going to face both jail time and a major million dollar, plus, fine. WHY?

    Because Bush stinks. That’s why.

    Because he’s an A-NUMBER-ONE coward. Who thinks loyalty means everyone jumps on their sword for him. Bush is without class. No matter what you think of his linage. He’s worse than his dad. And, he’s co-opted the GOP to get nominated. Just like his dad did in 1988. Was Dukakis worse? Of course he was!

    That’s the whole screwy idea. BOTH PARTIES put up real crap to run for the presidency.

    What happens in 2008? I’ll bet we’ll go back to 4-year deals.

    Look at our presidents. MOST NEVER GET SECOND TERMS.

    When Andrew Jackson was elected in 1824, the election was stolen from him. And, with Henry Clay’s “halp” … in Congress, the 2nd place winnah, was “picked.” Quincy Adams, jr. Who promptly gave Clay the Secretary of War job, in his cabinet. 4 LONG AND STINKING YEARS. When in 1828 Andrew Jackson ran again, he GOT MORE VOTES. And, the election couldn’t be stolen from him. PISSED OF THE INSIDERS BIG TIME! Andrew Jackson then got re-elected in 1832. Yes. People were surprised. Because he was an old, old man. Before medical science made Viargra, and it’s other life extensions, possible.

    But, politics being politics. Things settle back to “as usual.” Southerners kept getting elected into the presidency. No one dealt with the problems at hand. The WHIGS, however, collapsed. Even with Lincoln’s brains within that structure. He had to leave to get elected in 1860. And, then it took a bloody Civil War, as well.

    What are the answers? Well, Lincoln left the information to learn. You cannot get elected without a PARTY. The party controls who gets nominated. And, people are usually left to pick between two dogs.

    While the media, actually, is confronting the loss of business. Similar to what happened to the automotive industry. Which left a large swath of Michigan dry as a bone, when it comes to jobs. They’re gone, now. (And, yes, they’ve gone south, where we’re lucky. And, oversees, where we are not.)

    And, independents will never get to choose much, except between dogs.

    And, Libby? A very sad case. Won’t strengthen what people already know about lawyers. The crap house of the court house. And, dumb politics.

    By the way, IF the supreme-O’s think that overturning ROE stops abortions, they’re nuts. Abortions were ALWAYS available. Just not clean ones. That protected the health of wemmen.

    But the GOP? The radicals will kill the party. They’ll go, ahead, the way of the WHIGS. That’s the record, at least, of what’s happened before.

  4. Bikerken says:

    The only good thing about this question is that it really does get to the heart of the case because they have stumbled across the reason that perjury trials are so hard to prosecute. It is hard to prove someones INTENT beyond a reasonable doubt because you can’t read their minds. So you need some kind of proof that they had a reason and commited actions to tell a lie. There is none of that here. The bad news is that if they have to have that explained to them at this point, they are a bunch of idiots and probably are easily manipulated. That don’t bode well for Scooter.

    When Clinton first took office, one of the early things he did was to fire over ninety of the prosecuters at the DOJ and put in a bunch of political appointees where they didn’t exist before. He fired many people in different agencies and stuck clintonistas every where he could. Remember the white house travel office? The mistake bush made was to leave these traitorous assholes in place when he came in. That has been dogging him ever since. The who plame episode is the result of a politcal hit job by Clintonistas left over in the FBI and CIA who have been having fun making life as miserable as they can for W. Personally, I think every damned one of them should be put up against a wall and shot but we don’t live in that kind of a country, nor would I want to. What they have been doing is not only treasonous, it has had a profound effect on the war through intelligence leaks, and hamstringing the president from doing his job. But they don’t care because they hate W so much and don’t give a rat’s ass about America.

  5. The Macker says:

    Agree that the jury has proven itself frivolous.

    Don’t agree with your “impression” that Bush is a coward. He has shown more courage than any president since Lincoln.

    Agree that independents , but by their own choice, have no voice in the choice of candidates.

    Disagree abt SCOTUS. Roe vs Wade was wrongly decided. Originalist judges are needed to preserve our freedom and ideals.

  6. Soothsayer says:

    I. Lewis Libby is a perjurious bastard and he’s going down. But it won’t end with Scooter.

  7. lurker9876 says:

    Your posts seethe with hatred towards the Bush adm. Never ends.

  8. ivehadit says:

    Yep, they are an indictment of the inner life of the sooth….a place I am glad I do not inhabit. It’s bad enough to have to live with it in our public discourse every day…on the antique media America haters.