Jun 22 2006
Utter GOP Failure
*** Update: A reader from the rightward fringe has commented on all the scary things that might happen if the country allows an expanded guest worker program (one already exists today, as I pointed out – there are just more working workers than positions allowed by Congress’ made up number right now). The fear of an immigrant worker becoming a US citizen in 10 years is the silliest excuse I have ever seen for not doing anything to sift the simple workers from the potential terrorists. It shows how obsession can destroy credibility in a blinding instant. to defend this is pure wasted energy. There is no defense. The far right is afraid of the fact, under the current Bush-Senate Plan, that immigrants will be elligible for citizenship in 2016-2021, and that is why they gladly did nothing on this subject to meet the threat we face today. All the Chicken Little theories cannot avoid concluding how dumb a decision this was. We now have 12 million undocumented workers in which terrorists can hide, and no plans to change our borders or our laws. And all because someone may become a US citizen 10-15 years out, no way to sift through all these people and weed out the risks. Nothing. And these people wonder why America will now look outside the GOP for answers? If the Democrats ever give up on real amnesty program and pledge to do something now to increase our security, good-bye GOP majorities. This was a “one strike and your out” issue with me because it had to do with national security. The polls support for the Bush-Senate plan at 2 to 1 and sometimes 5 to 1, so don’t tell me this was popular. And no one will have any desire to hear all the lame fantasy excuses as to why the GOP decided to leave us exposed to terrorist. Game over, all credibility lost. ***
I am still without many editing features this morning so I will not be linking to other stories for this post – but I don’t have to. The hardline GOP has declared victory in their complete and utter failure to address immigration. In a clear sign they never had the votes to pass the ‘kick ’em out’ proposals (which have ranged from making it a felony to work for a living to starving people out of their jobs to force them back over our borders), the GOP leadership is pleased as punch they failed to do anything.
These supposedly concerned leaders (if I can stretch the term that far) have left us unsecured borders and a mass of undocumented workers inside which terrorists could roam undetected. Personally, any democrat who is ready to fix this problem ASAP has my backing. Because I will never let myopic party allegiance outweigh protecting people from harm.
There have been proposals, many I have made, to identify the truly criminal element in the immigration population and give them the boot while allowing those who work hard and support their communities to stay on as guest workers. The humane solution as opposed to a Gestop-lite solution where we spend the majority of our security assets for the next 5-10 years rounding up people who’s sin is not being under the mythical number Congress sets each year for immigrant work force size. Since Congress deals in mythical, silly numbers making it a felony to not be in sync with these numbers is the most socialistic insanity I have ever heard. But your supposedly small government GOP is willing to raise our taxes and spend like mad to do just that.
Because we do not have the security infrastructure to round up 12 million people and process them for deportation. It would take a massive build up and raising taxes across the board to do so. </p><br />
Those wedded to this simple minded solution have never once been called to explain all the ramifications – how they would execute and pay for this ‘cleansing’. And they never once explained what would happen if their was resistance (e.g., Elian Gonzales) by families and neighbors. There would be human shields surrounding these good people because THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE! Not all immigrants are bad or do bad things.
But if you want to push them over the edge then cut off their jobs, dump them in the streets and simply pray they have the means to go home. That, by the way, is the on-the-cheap answer from those who do know the costs and total consumption of our security assets. Which illustrates the bankrupt ideas from the far right on this issue.
So where did they leave us in their pyrhhic victory? Possibly 80% of the country backs Bush’s guest worker program, 20% back serious punishment solutions. And that stubborn 20% left us wide open to more immigrants, more undocumented people here without background checks (the most important aspect of what we need is the background check), more people to hide human needles.
The guest worker program allowed all those who could show (a) having a job and (b) having good character (i.e., good background checks) to step forward and reduce our problem by a massive amount. If we could get 80% of the people to step forward we reduce the group we have to deal with from 12 million to 2.4 million. That means 1/5 the cost in terms of security resources.
But no. The only thing important to the hard right was getting their way. A seriously flawed and dangerous solution that had a higher probability of making us less safe and a very slim probability of making us even marginally safer. If we do not get buy-in from the immigrant and nationalized citizen base (which combined is very large in this country), if we create disharmony and and anger in the streets, if we divert all out security resources on this fool’s errand, we provide a multitude of fractures within our country and our society for Al Qaeda to take advantage of.
It is this short sightedness that illustrates why obsession is dangerous. The GOP leaders wanted to be right so bad, on such a wrong position, they have left us completely unsecure. And they are happy about it. Given the disasterous ramifications of their desires, I can see why some might assume we should be happy for the stale mate. But all we have is as bad as it is now, or much, much worse as our options from the GOP.
And that can mean only one thing. Get more options from someplace else. And when it comes to security – any place else which has a sane solution. The Democrats have excluded themselves in their version of insanity – complete amnesty and citizenship. Another solution that makes the status quo preferrable only because it too is so horrific.
America needs more than two choices more horrific than the mess we have today. So let’s just throw them all out. Senator Allen – I am now going to research Mr. Webb’s positions on this issue. And it will alone will determine my vote this fall. Hopefully you have not exposed yourself on this issue!
BTW, last time I checked Allen was not a hero of the hard right on this issue. But if he moves, I am staying put. I work for NASA so my position on this should be recongnizable. Failure was not an option. The GOP should never have convinced themselves it was. And please, no one give me excuses on why not. They are infinite reasons not to do something and none of them ever impress me. I am impressed by getting things done. Failure was not an option (or an excuse).
Ya, they are our “Guests” A.J. Just peaceful people looking to better themselves. The House is under pressure to secure the border. That is what most Americans want first. Why?
‘Most wanted’ lists filled with hard-to-track Latinos
‘They’re anonymous — invisible, really’
Thomasi McDonald and Mandy Locke, Staff Writers
For nearly five days, Johnston County sheriff’s deputies have looked for Rigo Coyt Partida, a native of Mexico who neighbors said blasted his roommate in the chest with a shotgun.
It’s like hunting in the dark, deputies say.
Partida, 45, a bricklayer, told his boss that his name was “Felipe Corona.” Players on his soccer team and his Selma neighbors knew him by other names. He took off in a truck not registered to him, and federal immigration agents have turned up nothing, detectives said.
“We have no way to track down people like this,” Johnston Sheriff’s Lt. Fred Dees said. “They’re anonymous — invisible, really.”
Law enforcement agencies often search in vain for suspects who may not be in the country legally. As a result, Latinos — the bulk of the 300,000 illegal immigrants in the state — dominate the lists of “most wanted” crime suspects in Wake and Johnston counties.
In Wake, Hispanics account for more than 70 percent of the suspects on the most wanted lists for the Sheriff’s Office and Raleigh police. In Johnston, nearly all of the homicides in which no one has been arrested in recent years involve Hispanic suspects.
By contrast, Hispanics make up less than 8 percent of the population in these counties and accounted for about 12 percent of people arrested in Wake in 2005.
Fears of profiling
These most wanted lists are the face of violent crime in the community — broadcast on Internet sites and displayed on posters. They allow law enforcement to spread the word and solicit tips.
Some advocates worry that the over-representation of Hispanics on these lists is a form of racial profiling, but law enforcers say the lists simply reflect the most elusive fugitives. Because foreign-born citizens often lack verifiable documentation and can easily slip back into their home countries, they tend to be the hardest to catch.
The tactics typically used to catch suspects often fall short when the target wasn’t born in this country or even this state, SBI Director Robin Pendergraft said.
“We look at utility records, we talk with neighbors, we visit the schools your children may attend,” Pendergraft said. “Some people are harder to track, and that’s being reflected in most wanted.”
Regardless of the reasons for Hispanics dominating these lists, the effect can be dangerous, said Marisol Jimenez-McGee, a social worker and advocate with El Pueblo, a Latino advocacy group in Raleigh.
Jimenez-McGee pointed to incidents in Mount Olive, where three police officers were accused of robbing Hispanic drivers during traffic stops in 2004. That same year, the state appeals court determined that a trooper with the state Highway Patrol engaged in ethnic profiling when he targeted Hispanic motorists for traffic stops.
“Are all the crimes related to racial profiling? No,” she said. “But it exists.”
Fake documentation
Local law enforcement agencies say an underground market in counterfeit green cards, driver’s licenses and Social Security cards undermines their ability to nab Hispanic suspects. Marketing fake documents to immigrants has become a multimillion-dollar industry in the United States, said Tom O’Connell, resident agent in charge of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Office in Cary.
“All the people who are here illegally have to be employed in order to survive,” O’Connell said. “You can go to a trailer park or a corner in any major city and within an hour have a Social Security card or a green card for about 20 bucks. It’s here in Raleigh.”
Jimenez-McGee said the underground economy exists because the immigration system is broken. The inability of illegal immigrants to get a North Carolina driver’s license forces them to tap into under-the-table arrangements.
“That has been a stopping block to opening a bank account, renting an apartment or securing utilities in your name,” Jimenez-McGee said.
Law enforcement often has trouble communicating with witnesses who might also be in the country illegally. Aside from the language barrier, many illegal workers shy away from police because they fear the officers will deport them.
“When you lump in immigrant status with crime, then you alienate a large part of that community,” Jimenez-McGee said.
Extradition difficulties
During the Johnston County homicide investigation last weekend, sheriff’s deputies say they made it a point to tell witnesses that they are not immigration officials checking on their status.
“They don’t want to be on our radar, and simply talking to us puts them there,” Dees said.
Even if law officers can pinpoint a suspect living outside the United States, bringing him to justice is often tricky, officials say.
“If they flee to another country, we can’t rely on law enforcement the way we rely on law enforcement agencies here,” Raleigh police spokesman Jim Sughrue said.
In the case of Mexico, even if authorities figure out an address for a suspect, government officials refuse to extradite citizens wanted for crimes that could carry the death penalty, said Tex Lindsey, U.S. Marshal Fugitive Task Force commander for Eastern North Carolina.
Johnston sheriff’s deputies hope it doesn’t come to that with Partida. Even if he doesn’t turn up soon, being wanted will make him surface.
“As long as there is a living breath in him, somebody with a badge will be looking for him,” Johnston Sheriff’s Capt. Buck Pipkin said. “He’ll always be wanted, and he’ll always be looking over his shoulder.”
MOST WANTED LISTS RALEIGH POLICE
Adriana Deloya Roman, 21, charged with the murder of Edwin Sosas. Police think Roman is living in Mexico.
Alfonso Montoya Hernandez, 53, charged with murder
Andrew Lawrence Lewis, 36, wanted in the 2000 murder of Alden Augustine
Cesar Estrada, 34, murder
Emelanio Sandoval Rojas, 56, murder
Fitzgerald Innocent, 37, murder
Gregory Galberth, 41, armed robbery
Phu Tan Nguyen, 36, wanted in a 1996 homicide that occurred outside a restaurant on New Hope Road
Shawnte Roy Williams, 22, wanted for common law robbery, trespassing and possession of stolen property
Gonzalo Garcia, 29, murder
Jose Francisco Martinez, 34, murder
Jose Herrnandez, 39, murder
Jose Ismael Bonilla-Yanez, 41, burglary, rape, armed robbery, kidnapping
Juan Armenta Perez, 40, murder
Juaquin Sanchez, 55, murder
Noel Monterrubio-Garcia, 36, murder
Tomas Serrano Garcia, 35, murder
Raleigh police ask anyone with information to call 890-3355.
WAKE COUNTY SHERIFF
Louis M. Avendano, 35, murder
Emad Mahd Bsiso, 46, first-degree sex offense
Juan Barbassa-Gayton, 30, assault with a deathly weapon with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury
Marko Michael Navas, 26, indecent liberties with a juvenile
Jorge Simon Matteo, 28, statutory sex offense
Daniel Sandria Moreno, 44, murder
Orlando Valentin Cruz, 44, murder
Anyone with information is urged to call the Wake County Sheriff’s Office at 856-6911 or 856-5383.
NORTH CAROLINA
Omar Ocampo Figueroa, 34, wanted in the 1999 murder of Silvia Cuevas, 28, in Aberdeen
Jose Manuel Torres Miranda, 25, charged with 2003 murder of Charles Hanley, a retired fire chief from the Roosevelt Volunteer Fire Department in New York
Yong Orellana Bonilla, 32, wanted in the slaying of Thomas Cabrera, 38. Bonilla has been entered as wanted worldwide.
Ismael Mendes Ordones, 25, wanted in the May 1996 murder of Lauren Clifton Denny at her home near Candor
Alejandro ‘Alex’ Gutierrez, 18, wanted in the 2005 triple murders of Jose Manuel Sanchez, Tomas Romero, and Jorge Osmano Castland Alberto in Statesville
Gonzalo Garcia Gonzalez, wanted in the 2004 murder of Luis Perez Mejia in Monroe
Richard Lynn Bare, 41, wanted in the 1984 murder of a woman who was pushed from a cliff in Wilkes County.
Home Invasion Suspect: Two home invasions occurred September 2000 within 30 minutes of each other in Northern Cabarrus County close to Rowan County.
Be-Lo Grocery Store Suspect, wanted for the 1993 triple homicide at the grocery in Windsor
The State Bureau of Investigation asks anyone who knows the location of these suspects to call (800) 334-3000.
JOHNSTON COUNTY
Aurelio Claudio Rogue, wanted in the April death of Candido Valdez Agustin, 19
Jose Chacon Torres, 39, accused of soliciting a murder for hire in the 1998 death of Richard Vestal
Pablo Hernandez Silverio, 29, wanted in the 2005 death of Jasiel Urgell Dantory
Rigo Coyt Partida, 45, wanted in the June 17 death of Gerardo Magana
Five suspects in the 2003 death of Adriana Mexicano at a brothel near Princeton.
Those Evil House Republicans! Why do we want a secure border first? Take II:
Agents break up document ring
By Keyonna Summers
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
June 22, 2006
Federal agents have closed up shop for what they say are eight members of an illegal alien fake-document ring that for years has sold out of an Adams Morgan apartment phony driver’s licenses, work papers and green cards to other illegals.
The ring — thought to be linked to an international organization run by the Castorena-Ibarra family whose kingpin was captured in Mexico this week — was raided early Tuesday as part of Operation Card Shark, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) initiative that began in 2002. The investigation has dismantled three other counterfeit document rings and arrested 195 persons in Adams Morgan.
“We’re in the process of developing evidence to go forward with our prosecutions,” James Spero, a special agent at ICE headquarters in Fairfax, said of Tuesday’s raid.
ICE agents, with federal arrest and search warrants in hand, awoke the eight men at 6 a.m. in a two-bedroom apartment at 3636 16th St. NW.
Inside, agents seized more than 100 fake documents, including green cards, Social Security cards and employment authorization cards. They also confiscated cell phones, numerous electronic devices, equipment used to make the documents and more than $14,000 in cash.
In ICE custody are: Luis Angel Mendez-Hernandez, 21; Andres Angel Vasquez-Soriano, 41; Eladio Espinoza-Cuevas, 50; Alberto Martin Vasquez-Soriano, 40; Juan Antonio Pacheco-Vasquez, 20; Julio Cesar Pacheco-Vasquez, 24; and Cesar Cuevas-Mendez, 24, all of Mexico.
Luis Vasquez, 33, also of Mexico, appeared before an immigration judge Tuesday, and faces criminal charges for immigration fraud. The others will be deported and face charges at a later date.
ICE officials said yesterday they did not know whether the men are related, but said the ring has ties to others in Detroit, Baltimore and Chicago.
“It’s basically an international organization that’s distributing these documents throughout the country, primarily on the East Coast and in the Midwest,” said one agent who declined to be identified. “Most of the money is sent back to Mexico. It’s much like the drug trade in that it’s such a profitable industry and as long as the demand is out there, the individuals will supply it.”
The apartment the authorities raided is along Columbia Road Northwest between 16th and 18th streets in Adams Morgan. It is a well-known spot among illegals looking for bogus documents.
Yesterday, agents displayed documents seized from prior raids. Blank paper driver’s licenses and work permits, many of them poorly made, lay sealed inside plastic folders labeled “Evidence.” A Polaroid camera, a blow-dryer and spray-on adhesive used to affix photos to the documents appeared worn from use. A typewriter used to print names on the documents was covered in ink.
Special agents with the agency’s Document and Benefit Fraud Task Force in the District have been tracking several organizations in Adams Morgan for years.
Street vendors along Columbia Road whisper the word “mica” — which is Spanish slang for “green card” — to passers-by and simulate holding a card by making a “C” with their thumb and forefinger to recruit customers.
Middle men, or runners, take the customer’s name, date of birth and a photo to a “mill,” usually a home or apartment in the D.C. suburbs, where a machinist manufactures the documents. The vendor and machinist may not know each other.
Customers on average pay between $80 and $120 to receive a Social Security card, green card, work permit or driver’s license within 30 minutes to two hours.
Though many are of poor quality, agents say, the documents pose threats because customers routinely supply false names and many employers can’t gauge the documents’ authenticity.
“It’s not only taking away potential jobs from U.S. citizens, which they’re doing if people hire them illegally, but these fraudulent documents hide whatever true intentions or motives they might have,” said Bruce Foucart, acting special agent-in-charge of ICE’s District-based Office of Investigations.
Of the 195 persons arrested through Operation Card Shark, all but one have been illegals and most are from Mexico, officials said.
Officials have prosecuted 60 illegals, seized about 10,000 documents with an estimated street value of more than $1 million and shut down seven document “mills.”
Charges associated with fake-document rings include aggravated identity theft, which carries a minimum of two years in prison, and creating fraudulent immigration documents, which carries a maximum of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, officials said.
I feel your anger, AJ.
Sadly, I find myself stuck with having to choose between Allen, who has pandered to the hard-liners on immigration and Webb, whose position on the war on terror is something I cannot support (he was against liberating Iraq, and has asserted it had nothing to do with international terrorism – see my blog for details).
I encourage everyone who enjoys A.J.’s blog, to read the following.
We have a serious problem with Illegal Aliens, to reward them with a path to Citizenship is not the proper course. Tucson Weekly writter Leo W. Banks has done some of the best work I have ever seen on the true nature of this problem. Please, if you have not read these, take the time to do it.
Images From the Battleground – Ranchers 75 miles from Tucson say bad border policies have resulted in a daily invasion of drugs, death, pollution and violence (08-11-2005)
Catastrophe in Care – Hospitals are being crippled by the costs of treating migrants–and that could be just the start of an immigrant-related health crisis (06-02-2005)
Under Siege – As illegal immigrants surge across Southern Arizona, life for ranchers living near the border has become a living hell (03-10-2005)
Other Than Mexicans – Are terrorists entering the United States through Arizona’s border with Mexico? This question is getting a lot of media attention–so we sent Leo W. Banks to the border to find out what the buzz is all about. (09-02-2004)
A Matter of Numbers – Experts say it’s only a matter of time before an animal disease disaster strikes the unsecured U.S.-Mexico border (01-19-2006)
The House Republicans are not up for commiting Political Suicide. Remember, they face election every two years. Their Constituants want secure borders first. Shouldn’t we all? If your ship is taking on water, would you not first try to stop the leak?
Harold,
It is not a hard decision then. The measuring stick is security and progress on security. Allen actually supports aspect of the guest worker program in tandem with the fence. He get’s one point for each, and a big bonus point for being for Iraq and staying with Iraq. Web cannot get the same number of points so he is not selected. My position is simple, who ever has the most points gets my vote regardless of party because national security is not a partisan issue in my opinion. Any rep who can be outscored by a Dem loses. Right now, Hastert and Boehner would lose to Leiberman (and sadly Hillary). This is not rocket science. Play games with security and your out. The only thing saving the Reps is their disasters are not as bad as the Democrats disasters.
At this point, I have to agree.But it is saying a lot that the only reason the Republicans are holding on is because the Democrats seem more determined to lose than the Republicans are.
Most Americans DO NOT SUPPORT the Senate's Amnesty Plan.Most Americans DO NOT SUPPORT the House's Felony Plan.Lets put a GOOD PLAN in place, and not rush some hodgepodge piece of crap out so the "Men In Black" can overrule the Laws of the Land… Again.Personally, I am through with this debate, as the Lawlessness of the Land is not the Rule, NOT the exception. I bow out.
SteveVVS,
Your position is why we have nothing. For all your clamour about how bad this is your side gave us nothing. This is a one strike and your out issue. Your side failed and is now irrelevant. You are so paranoid about an immigrant worker becoming a US citizen 10-15 years down the road (which is the timeframe for guest workers under the Bush plan) your side has left us wide open to a real attack from a real threat that exists today.
Your kind of logic gets people killed. I could care less how frightened you are of new US citizens in 15 years. But I do appreciate you sticking your head up and providing the perfect example of why we can now afford to look outside the GOP for answers. As I said, your side has failed and now has zero credibility on this issue, no matter how many Chicken Little stories you make up.
Amazing, no? After the week of May 1, illegal immigration was suddenly something that had to be solved RIGHT NOW.But only if there is no possibility of "amnesty." "Amnesty," as far as I can tell, means providing ANY path to citizenship AT ALL to anyone who was here without the blessing of our twisted immigration bureaucracy UNLESS the person first leaves the country. Even if the illegal immigrant has to put in a great deal of effort, getting himself a reliable and good-paying job, learning English, learning American history, paying back taxes, etc., if the illegal immigrant does not first leave the country, then what the immigrant is getting is "amnesty."This means that between 12 and 20 million people (depending on what estimate you believe) can either remain in this country as illegal immigrants, or move out of the country and THEN reapply for citizenship. Yeah, good luck getting that to happen. But "amnesty" was treated as something that was absolutely unequivocably an abomination, as something that absolutely must not happen. There was simply no room for compromise on this issue at all. The Senate bill supposedly reeked of this "amnesty" and so the call on the Right was that the House absolutely had to kill the bill — not amend it, not make any counterproposals, but just kill it.Well, now the bill has been killed. I guess we got all excited about this illegal immigration thing for nothing and can go back to ignoring it. It certainly isn't urgent enough to get anything passed in Congress, apparently, but the Right has made it plain that, having seen the Senate bill and declared it putrid, they'd rather get nothing at all and let the problem fester this year. Well, they've got it, and they seem to be proud of it.Disgusting. And I don't like being disgusted by the Right, but I'm starting to get used to the feeling. It would seem that the screaming over things like the Harriet Miers nomination, the Dubai port deal, and illegal immigration is turning into a habit.
a few night’s ago, on fox news with brit hume, they mentioned a “position paper” by leading conservatives–william buckley etc–that stated that the border must be certified sealed before any other programs are considered. it is this editorial that put all else on the back burner——-but not off the burner!
http://www1.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/prominent_conservatives_urge_e.html
i can happily say it is what many of us have hoped for.
just remember as we have been discussing the upholstery on the deck chairs for these last several weeks 190,000 more of our friends have come to say hello, permanently.
in the very near future this from 2000–it is more shaded now in 2006 (picture)
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_hispanicpop.html
will lead to this because of their sheer numbers (picture)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4786/105/1600/Aztlan.jpg
because we don’t have this (picture)
http://www.weneedafence.com/images/Fence_Idea.jpg
first things first…….
i still don’t think they will be able to enforce the laws in the workplace because of the unemployment it would cause and the attendant strain on the social services net. i say seal the border and then see what happens……maybe the dems what agree to that.
personally i would like them to seal the border and just legalize everyone on this side with a ten year green card. throw the stupid senate bill and house felon amendment in the trash can where both house’s knew they would end up when they wrote them.
Mr. Neid,
Can you offer anything other than scare-mongering on the scale of Earth in the Balance/global warming?
Hey AJ,
“My Side” want’s to secure the border. My Side want’s the LAWS ON THE BOOKS NOW ENFORCED. My Side want’s Legal Immigration. My Side recognizes this is a serious problem. First, we need to secure the border. Your side want’s to water that down. I love ya man, but on this issue, which is really an issue about enforcing our laws currently on the books, many want to close their eyes and act like the serious problems because of Illegal Aliens, do not exist.
They are destroying Ranchers Private Property, they are destroying National Parks. They are closing hospitals and Emergency rooms, they are drive down wages, they are bringing once eliminated disease’s back here. They are killing American Citizens Daily, both with weapons and CARS. MS 13 and other Gangs rome the street here. In N.C. where I live, we have had a rash of Illegal Drinking and Driving, THE WRONG WAY on our Charlotte are Highways, killing LEGAL AMERICANS! They are not “Undocumented”, they all have Fraudulent Documents. They are using other peoples Social Security Numbers FRAUDULENTLY. Due to N.C.’s Motor Voter, they are voting here too!
Localy, many contractors are now out of business BECAUSE they could not compete with other contractors Hiring Illegals. Our area has everything now Billingual. Every where you go, spanish is everywhere. That dose nothing to help even Legal Hispanics assimilate. My employer has people from nearly everywhere. India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, etc. Yet, they have assimilated. We don’t print anything in their native language. But…at our ATM Machine, we first are asked Spanish or English.
I am 100% for Legal Immigration. And I understand many are decent people. But we can not continue to turn our heads from this serious problem. If we are not tough on those here illegally, what kind of message are we sending to their family and friend back home? If you subsidize something, you get more of it. Rather than Legalize these people, we should be encouraging the countries they are comming from to enbrace Capitalism. 10% of Mexican Citizens now live here! That speaks Volumes with me. Your approuch will only encourage more. On every thing else you post, I’m with ya bro, but man, I have studied this for over 4 years, and the only conclusion I can come to is, we are in serious trouble. The Senate/Bush plan is a disaster waiting to happen. I am a huge Bush supporter, but two areas he and I totaly disagree on are Spending and Immigration. Sorry you and I are also way apart.
SteveVV,
Your side delivered nada. Your side is done. Perfect is the evil of good and progress. Your fear of an immigrant becoming a citizen in 10-15 years is why we have nothing today. Talk is easy – results count.
The Senate bill was 1,000 times better than nothing. The fact your side doesn\’t see this is everything. You cannot be with me at all on this. Security is paramount. If anyone person, let alone someone dear to me, dies as a result of this dumb game I will never, ever consider supporting Reps and cons again. Anything that happens because of this is all, 100% the fault of the far right. I could never be with that kind of shortsightedness.
I appreciate you reading this blog and being with me on other issues. But this is not some policy like No Child Left Behind or Miers over Alito. Those are marginal issues. Leaving this country unprotected when there were never going to be the votes or support for the far right plan was tantamount to criminal – at least criminal negligence. The only question is whether this rises to negligent homicide.
AJ, you say the Senate Bill is better than no bill. You say that having no bill will keep these people in the shadows.
I have a few questions for you.
Do you think that the Shamnesty Bill will bring those who wish to do us harm out of the shadows?
Are those illegals who are receiving welfare, public housing, AFDC, WIC in the shadows?
Are the university students who are in our nation illegally in the shadows?
If the laws already on the books were enforced would we even need a new “immigration” bill?
The Senate bill is just plain bad. It allows for social security benefits for those now made legal. It allows for unlimited chain migration, some of those chain migrants will then come to our nation and be eligible for Social Security due to their age immediately.
Plug the hole in the boat, and repair the boat later.
Steve is the kind of hysteric that got us where we are. Five years ago this issue was a nuisance to most people, and we had about 10 million illegals here. Now we have about 10 million illegals here and people are ranting like loons.
I do understand the security issue, but these folks are not worried about security. They just don’t like Mexican immigrants. That is what this is all about. It is obvious. And now they feel like they are in a position to shove this down the throats of the rest of the country. I don’t think so. If they were that damn worried about security they would have found some kind of compromise that would have gotten the needed secuirty measures underway. But no siree….they say we get NOTHING. Nada. No plan. Just Tancredo and Sessions and the gang touring the country and playing to the anti immigrant crowds and feeling all big and bad. For doing nothing. Accomplishing nothing.
Yes, there are people who come here from other countries who commit crimes, but it not fair to say that all illegals are criminals. That is bigotry. Plain and simple. Is there some desire on the part of the GOP to commit politcal suicide and make it impossible for any one is hispanic to even think about voting for them? Read that rant above, and imagine you are from Honduras and your son is serving in Iraq right now and you clean houses for a living.
Back in the 20’s the Republicans went through a nativist phase like this and when they got done with their campaign to slow down or stop immigration of Poles and Jews and Italians who came here by telling the country that these people were criminals and could not be assimilated or were Papists or whatever…they ended up losing the Irish and Italian and Polish Catholic vote for a generation, not to mention the Jewish vote. They became a minority party.
But the thing that pisses me off is that we were right we were when this whole thing started. The rightwing seems to think that because they are louder on this issue that translates into more popular.
Richard Nixon was wrong about a lot of things, but he was not wrong about the silent majority. And that majority wants a realistic solution to the problem not a lot of grandstanding and useless braying that accompishes nothing.
I am done with these people. The only thing that keeps me voting Republican at this point is the war and the fear that Bush would be impeached by the Democrats if they had the chance. But Bush will not be in office forever and if Democrats can get their selves together on this they might have a shot at winning.
In fact I think that having the hardliners go around the country for no purpose other than to scare people, trash the Senate bill and make hispanics hate them under some guise of “hearings” is stupid. This is not about hearings, this is about them keeping this issue alive and unsettled and unsolved and undealt with because they think they can get and keep the base riled up and that will help them in November. That is all they care about. They want them frothing at the mouth and fired up and if that means stabbing their own president in the back, well so be it. Every man for himself.
reture:
I think you are missing the point. The house did not offer to compromise and come up with something better than the “shamnesty bill”, they just pitched a tantrum took their football and went home.
So it seems that Karig is right, this is a habit with some of the more vocal people on the right. Pitch a fit, refuse to compromise, bully everybody else and go home.
Which means they do not really give a rat’s ass.
The “do something even if it’s wrong” mentality has chosen far too dangerous an issue on which to pontificate and blame the “far right” for inaction. Am I concerned about aliens becoming citizens in 10-15 years? Yes I certainly am, if there are 75 million of them. And by some estimates that is not an impossible number. I’m also concerned about the effect millions of new recipients will have on welfare rolls, along with the strain which will be placed on providers of medical care and housing–all of which will be underwritten by the taxpayer, of course. Prisons and crime? Well, the odds are it won’t be the doctors, attorneys and successful businessmen walking across the border, will it? Rather than inviting the best and brightest to enjoy the honor of United States citizenship, we will be opening our borders to the dregs of Mexican society–the people Fox doesn’t want to have to imprison and pay for. If it sounds racist that’s fine. It happens to be the truth. The Senate program is a joke and our fine elected officials know it. There is no way to verify anything any of these people tell us about their history in the US. And people are supposed to leave and re-enter? Yeah, right. Oh, just one more thing. Does anyone actually think democrats are going to be willing to wait 10-15 years before enjoying the fruits of the new voting bloc they are creating? That long interim which shouldn’t concern us will be cut to 1 or 2 years, maybe less. Dems, probably with the assistance of our more self-serving republican friends (McCain, Hegel, Graham anybody?) will decide that waiting period is unfair–that it places too great a burden on these hard-working people. And the folks who were going to be voting for their favorite welfare-providing democrat in 2015 will actually be going to the polls in 2008. House republicans did exactly the right thing. Seal the border first. Deport as many as possible while providing prison terms to employers of illegals. Disqualify illegals from any sort of public assistance. Finally, provide a green card only to those who can speak english and offer citizenship only to those who have been employed for a period of 5 years. Voters will sign on to this approach because the nation will benefit rather than be overrun.
OLDPUPPY:
I blame the far right for making this a crisis and then not doing anything about it. if they wanted to take their time they could have had their damn hearings before they tried to make illegal entry a felony and then demanded action immediately. Instead they want to spend a year trashing the Senate Bill. How long do you think it will be before everyone just loses interest?
As for the Democrats and the voting bloc, there is no reason to believe that will be cut to 1 or 2 years, it is paranoia and the only reason any of this has to be a boon for Democrats is that Republicans seem bound and determined to make it one. What do you want to do? Make it a crime for hispanics to become registered voters because you might not like the way they vote? That is the kind of thinking that ruined the Dixiecrats in the South.
Maybe I’m missing something here, quoted from above:
“The Democrats have excluded themselves in their version of insanity – complete amnesty and citizenship. Another solution that makes the status quo preferrable only because it too is so horrific.
America needs more than two choices more horrific than the mess we have today.”
As far as I can figure, the ” Democrats have excluded themselves in their version of insanity – complete amnesty and citizenship.” is identical to the Republican plan. In the Senate.
“We need more than two choices”, well so far we have one, so we sure have to keep looking . The only choice in the Senate Compromise, ha ha is Complete amnesth.
I can’t say it any better than Terrye, so I’ll just repeat and add my own exclamation points:
I am done with these people. The only thing that keeps me voting Republican at this point is the war and the fear that Bush would be impeached by the Democrats if they had the chance. But Bush will not be in office forever and if Democrats can get their selves together on this they might have a shot at winning. !!!!!!!!!!!!!