Jun 14 2012
What Does Judge Lester Know About George Zimmerman We Don’t Know?
I have been crystal clear about why I think George Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter when he gunned down an unarmed Travyon Martin (and for all those who wanted to see the evil teenager who needed to be killed, I oblige above with a picture to haunt your souls). The early indications we had from the first sketchy information was that either this 17 old kid went berserk on Skittles, or George Zimmerman (GZ) was lying about what played out that night.
IF the latter is true (and I laid my bet early on that it would turn out to be true, based on personal experience with many other like-minded, vigilante types who get off on playing hero – with guns to embolden them) then I wagered Zimmerman was unaware of all the evidence around him. Especially the fact that a young lady was on the phone at the time of the incident and could speak to Zimmerman’s actions as she heard them, and as they were relayed DIRECTLY to her by Trayvon Martin himself. Without full knowledge of the perjury traps surrounding him, GZ was almost 100% likely to screw himself over while trying to gold plate his alibi.
We are close to seeing if my early observations do pan out, because now we are going to get the statements (but not necessarily a link to the contradictory evidence) that has given the State of Florida high confidence in a conviction of not just Manslaughter, but Murder 2.
This yet to be publicized evidence has been seen by both legal teams. The prosecution wanted it to remain out of the public because it would tip their hand before trial. And the defense wanted it out of the public because it would make his client look even worse than he does.
And then there was Judge Lester – who recently noted the evidence is ‘strong’.
There is some strange confusion as to how Judge Lester made this determination, but it would seem obvious in such a case like this with heated media attenti0n and hot heads on both sides. The likely event that exposed the prosecutors case to the judge (and defense team) would appear to be a pretrial conference of some kind:
Generally, the substance of a pretrial conference for a criminal case is the same as that for a civil case. At the conference the judge or magistrate may make rulings on motions, eliminate repetitive evidence, and set schedules.
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Criminal defendants must raise some issues before trial in a pretrial motion. Pretrial motions are specific requests for favorable orders from the court on particular issues. Under the Uniform Rules of Criminal Procedure, a set of model rules written by the American Law Institute and adopted by many jurisdictions, a defendant should lose the opportunity to raise the following issues if they are not raised prior to trial: defenses and objections based on defects in the indictment or formal charging instrument; requests regarding discovery, or disclosure of evidence; requests to suppress or exclude from trial potential testimony or other evidence; requests for severing the trial in cases involving codefendants; requests for the dismissal of the case; and requests for transfer of the case to another jurisdiction.
Similar requirements are imposed on prosecutors. The prosecution must tell the defendant prior to trial of its intention to use certain evidence, such as evidence obtained as a result of a search or seizure, wiretap, or other Electronic Surveillance mechanism; evidence culled from a confession, admission, or statement made by the defendant; and evidence relating to a lineup, show-up, picture, or voice identification of the defendant (Uniform Rules of Criminal Procedure 422(a)(1)).
It seems very likely that in discussing the withholding of this evidence from the public, the judge had to review said evidence in detail. Thus we can answer some marginal questions such as this:
Interestingly, he [Lester] writes for the first time that the state’s evidence is “strong.” The state chose not to present evidence on the facts of the case at the April 20 bond hearing, relying instead on its affidavit. The only testimony at the hearing on the facts of the case came from the state investigator, called by the defense, who acknowledged weaknesses in the state’s case. The state’s affidavit of probable cause, which as has been endlessly discussed, was a one-sided portrayal with factual inaccuracies and no mention defendant’s claim of self-defense. It didn’t contain evidence of the elements of second degree murder.
No, it did not. And that is because both legal teams have clearly been pushing from day one for the hard evidence against Zimmerman (his own words) to be kept out of the public light. It happens, not all the evidence is public.
Florida statutes, rules and case law provide that the accused has a right to bail unless the state establishes at the hearing that “the proof of guilt is evident and the presumption great.” If the state fails to meet its burden, the judge must set bail. If the state meets is burden, the judge still has discretion (as opposed to the duty) to grant bail. Judge Lester seems to be making a finding now that he didn’t make at the April 20 hearing — that the state met its burden under the Arthur standard of establishing that the proof of guilt is evident and the presumption great.
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Judge Lester made no such finding in April (you can watch the video of closing arguments and his ruling here), and the State never presented evidence other than its affidavit to meet that burden.
This argument against Judge Lester’s decision is handicapped by severe blinders. If both sides want to keep evidence from being made public, the Judge has to go along until he has the opportunity to do the research and make a decision on the motion(s). So, to operate within the request to hold back evidence normally made public, the obvious process is not to expose it during open trial events.
I mean – duh!
The argument being presented actually proves how bad this really is for GZ by explaining how unprecedented things are, and what the conditions must be for them to be proper – and unprecedented:
Case law in Florida since the 1950’s has held that the state is unlikely to be able to meet such a burden in homicide cases where self-defense is raised. An accused’s version of the manner by which a homicide occurred (such as self-defense) is generally accepted for the purpose of determining whether the proof of his guilt was evident or the presumption great.
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Defendant’s version of the homicide can not be ignored where there is an absence of other evidence legally sufficient to contradict his explanation.
I am assuming everyone here is acting in good faith and within the normal parameters of the law (being seasoned legal professionals of the criminal judicial system). Which means that the reason Judge Lester is coming down hard on GZ and able to take the positions he has is because there is evidence legally sufficient to contradict GZ’s self-defense explanation.
Imagine that. Clear evidence that GZ’s story was rapidly and awkwardly concocted on the spot to cover up his aggressive and criminal decisions and actions.
Those who support GZ without question or thought will be tested very soon. Myself, if the evidence is weak I can switch positions in a second. I am not emotionally hooked to any outcome. My position has been to go to trial and let the process work – for the real victim here. A dead 17 year old American kid with so much ahead of him. The only reason I stand pat is as details have emerged, they have supported and not contradicted my initial assessment. It happens.
Only until I see proof beyond a reasonable doubt Trayvon was a mortal threat to GZ (instead of his stalked victim) I am not buying this self defense crap. TM had a right to stand his ground too. And that included not going home and hiding from a vigilante. Sadly, that would have been the better decision for the young man, but if he thought the coast was clear and began going about is business. That is not a crime.
And that is not an decision worth being killed over.
GZ stalked, confronted and likely initiated the physical altercation. That is my guess based on the character of Zimmerman and how he builds his lies and alibis. He looks to be the kind who lies easily (like in bail hearings where we now have two lies recorded regarding TM’s apparent age and his financial situation – where the coward had his wife lie for him), and he looks to build these lies by twisting events that actually occurred to his view. I truly wonder who came up to whom from behind and began this deadly dance.
I will end with this observation:
If the state wants bail rejected on June 29, it seems to me it has to file a written motion for pre-trial detention under the pre-trial detention rule, 3.132, and both produce non-hearsay evidence in support of the charges and prove there are no conditions that would reasonable assure Zimmerman’s appearance at trial or the safety of the community. If it doesn’t do that, then the court is still proceeding under the pre-trial release rule, 3.131, which requires the state to produce far more evidence, hearsay or otherwise, than it did in April, to establish Zimmerman is guilty of the charged offense.
Is it really a coincidence new evidence is becoming public over the objections of both legal teams? Not if the judge wants to free his hands in this situation. The judge rightfully noted GZ admitted to killing TM, so there is no issue with releasing more evidence of same. The question is how did this come about, and we may get some answers very soon.
see that sentence in there? “Judge Lester seems to be making a finding now that he didn’t make at the April 20 hearing”
RT, perhaps it’s pertinent to note that the quotes you are from AJ’s post are in blockquotes, and represent the words of another. In this case, they are the words of GZ advocate, Jeralyn Merritt at Talk Left. That specific dialogue is Ms. Merritt’s own, original opinion writing.
Ms. Merritt is, and has been, engaging in the same defense strategy that is practiced by Dershowitz in his 1982 book, “The Best Defense”.
Ms. Merritt knows very well that no original murder two charge and accompanying affidavit of PC goes to prosecution without a judge signing off that the State met it’s burden. Just because Lester did not issue a bench warrant with the language that the State’s reasoning that a crime was committed was strong at that time doesn’t mean it wasn’t strong enough to issue the bench warrant to begin with.
Since that time, he has had plenty more to read.. and now can observe that the State’s documentation utilized for bringing the charge is strong.
No brainer. But definitely an inconvenience to those that believed it was a bogus affidavit and charge to begin with.
OK… slight change of direction since we’ve beat this horse to death.
One of the reasons AJ is so adament in his distaste of GZ is that libs will use this incident to attack gun rights for those of us who choose to use these weapons responsibly.
Yesterday there was a great article about the overall decline in violent crime as gun ownership has skyrocketed – and the left’s silence on this development.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/18/gun-ownership-up-crime-down/
Classic take away line: “If the gun grabbers were right, we’d be in the middle of a crime wave, considering how many guns are on the streets.”
So… we now have more info/documents released. Seems that GZ’z story has been consistent since the first moments. Seems the cops did their best to try to shake him, but could not. Seems, at least at first glance, his version explains the inconsistency in the story of our star ear witness.
Remember DeeDee told us TM was running away, was out of breath, and (I quote): “Cause he said he is right by his father’s house. And then in a couple minutes he said the man is following him again.”
Way back in this thread I asked someone to explain to me how TM got to the place where the confrontation took place if DeeDee’s account was correct.
It seems to me that there is at least the possibility that TM doubled back to confront GZ. If he did double back, then it can be argued that he set off the chain of events that led to his death and GZ might have a reasonable claim of self-defense.
AJ: You’re on record as claiming that DeeDee’s account proves GZ is lying. I’d like your thoughts explaining this apparent discrepancy.
Courtesy of ABC:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-reenactment-trayvon-martin-shooting/story?id=16616864#.T-MTYLjDVoY
Really?
I find your conclusion interesting because the videos that I’ve been watching this afternoon clearly show multiple inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story.
We have the 911 audio. We now have the on-the-scene video.
Campare and contrast.
As the old Sesame Street song goes…which one of these things is not like the other?
BGG: Let’s see if we can figure this out together. I didn’t say “same”. I didn’t say “identical”. I said “consistent”.
If I saw a rehearsed, canned, story that was identical all the way thru I’d be suspicious.
Love to hear your explanation though of how TM came back to the scene of the crime after running away from GZ and being “…right by his father’s house.” Of all the potential ‘reasonable doubt scenarios’ this one seems like it has the greatest potential for GZ. I’ve been waiting for days for someone to come up with an explanation that keeps DeeDee’s earwitness testimony sacrosanct.
Layman,
Have you watched the video of the on-the-scene re-enactment that Z did yet?
Compare and contrast that video to the 911 audio.
There’s truck sized holes in his retelling of the story.
I’ve been waiting for the time to hear GZ’s story from his own lips. I’ve already done my comparison, BBG, and O’Mara and GZ are in serious jeopardy for defense to murder two.
Now I’m waiting to see if others are curious enough to explore if their confidence is misplaced in GZ’s story, after comparing the video reenactment to the 911 call timeline. The holes, if you place times, movements and accounts side by side, are painfully obvious.
Oh my… it seems Jeralyn over at Talk Left has revealed herself not to be in command of basic logic. She was trying to defense Zimmerman continuing to travel east to the Retreat View Circle/cut thru location as part of the dispatcher’s instructions. She says:
uh… really?
If the dispatcher wants to know where GZ’s car is parked, and he is standing east of his car right near the site of death, why would he travel even further east to get an address of his car, located approx 165′ to the WEST!
dang… remind me never to call this woman if I need a defense lawyer…
Actually, Layman, comparing the events and time lapses in the recorded dispatchers call to GZ’s reenactment has revealed the – dare I say it – “strength” of the State’s murder two charge.
GZ’s assertion that Martin ran down the cut thru, turned right, then came back out and circled his car is an outright lie and an impossibility, as evidenced by the call itself. Please allow me to demonstrate events, and compared elapsed time, from him first spotting TM until GZ hung up with the dispatcher as compared to his story of Martin’s movements.
According to GZ’s video reenactment, he first saw TM cut thru the unfenced area at the NW corner of the complex when he passed him slowly by. No mention of being “on drugs or something”, just suspicious because he was waiting, not moving in the rain and “looking” at houses. (think he might be waiting for a slow moving car with a guy staring at him go by? Was there more traffic behind him to wait for?)
GZ then says he drove east on Retreat View Circle where he parked at the clubhouse and called the dispatcher line, and that TM caught up with him at that location. Start the clock for the recording.
…. is GZ supposedly still parked at the clubhouse as he says, with Martin catching up to him as he told PD? According to his reenactment, it appears so.
Is the car off, or idling when he calls? Must be still running because he specifically says that Martin passed him by (not circled) and went down Twin Trees Lane. On the dispatcher call audio, and we don’t hear a car start. So after Martin passes him by, and GZ says nothing to this “suspicious” character from his idling car, he backs out of the space or pulls out (if he just pulled over) to follow Martin.
So far, this jives with what Dee said.. the a guy was checking him out, and that the guy was following him in his car.
GZ then says he followed TM in his SUV to the Twin Trees Lane spot where he last parked… the time elapsed from the “something in his waistband/checking me out” comment while parked at the clubhouse to arrival at the last place parked is 43 seconds, if you use the next pertinent comment… below. Quite reasonable for a slow moving car to round the corner from the clubhouse to the site where the SUV last parked.
The time when he stops there is now 2:08 seconds into the phone call.
While at that spot, GZ’s reenactment definitively states he observed Martin run down cut thru and turn right. Then he says that he doubled back, came towards his car and circled him. But of course, while on the phone with the dispatcher, he doesn’t say any of this. Why? In short, it never happened.
What really happened? He took the 43 seconds to follow Martin from the clubhouse to the Twin Trees intersection (and notice how many house numbers are available on the south side of the street), then says:
Obviously this is not *towards* GZ. No where since the start of the phone call has Martin had the time to go to the T, return and circle GZ’s car where he says it happened, and still have that jive with the call itself. So GZ arrives at the last place his SUV was parked, and TM takes off retreating.
When TM starts running, GZ is out of the car seconds later:
GZ, per Pt II of his reenactment tells the PD that when the dispatcher told him to stop, he was standing right near the site of the fight/death… about 165′ away from his SUV as I’ve always guessed for distance at a fast walk.
Then GZ contradicts himself. He first tells the investigator that he walks to the other end of the cut thru to Retreat View Circle while on the phone with the dispatcher. The audio on the dispatcher call clearly proves that false, as he never moved after stopping until after the call ended. GZ corrects himself on that during his reenactment by pointing back to the site of death and saying that’s where the dispatcher told him to stop following.
GZ also states that he told the dispatcher he would meet the LEO at his SUV. No, he did not. He told them he would call them to let him know where he was, and was rambling about where his car was parked when the dispatcher suggested the mailboxes. He did not agree to that. and he most certainly wouldn’t travel further east to tell the dispatcher an address where his car was parked to the west. So that wasn’t his goal either.
Burning question… when was Martin supposed to come back from the T area and circle GZ’s car, as he states, when you compare his story against the 911 call log? Didn’t happen. No time in there for it to happen, if you believe that he parked first at the clubhouse, let Martin pass him by, then followed him to the intersection at the T.
GZ has lived in a neighborhood for two years, acted as a watch captain, yet he does not know the names of the three streets in that neighborhood after all that time? But he knows all the neighbors and their kids… huh? He doesn’t know there are house numbers on the south side of the street where he is parked?
You have to be desperate to believe this stuff.
Meanwhile, from Martin’s perspective: he has entered the NW corner of the neighborhood where he’s staying, stops while a car drives slowly by with a guy obviously giving him the eye when he does. He continues walking towards the clubhouse where that same car is now idling at the clubhouse. When he passes the car and turns to carry on down Twin Trees Lane, that same car now backs out and follows him and parks.
Part of the elements of murder two are that the criminal acts that created the conditions that lead to a death also include that those acts make another feel threatened or in fear. Are any of these events in anyway intimidating or threatening to an individual walking thru a neighborhood?
GZ and O’Mara would be working on a plea bargain if they were smart.
That’s not even half of it… I just took you thru the end of the dispatcher call and already GZ’s story is a bunch of hooey.
Oh yes… allow me to add a sentence to my above:
Meanwhile, from Martin’s perspective: he has entered the NW corner of the neighborhood where he’s staying, stops while a car drives slowly by with a guy obviously giving him the eye when he does. He continues walking towards the clubhouse where that same car is now idling at the clubhouse. When he passes the car and turns to carry on down Twin Trees Lane, that same car now backs out and follows him and parks. He takes off running, and the person exits that car, seconds later, and follows him on foot.
Yup… gonna be hard to refute that murder two, unless the State doesn’t piece together the timeline and GZ’s story.
OK, got it, some holes that need to be repaired. Agreed.
But we also have DeeDee’s statement. Trayvon was running, out of breath, and stopped because he was “RIGHT BY HIS FATHER”S HOUSE.” So did he lie to DeeDee? Did he double back? Did she mishear him? Misunderstand him? Was his definition of “right by” really more than a hundred yards away?
Just saying that this line of “evidence” which AJ was hanging his hat on a few weeks ago now looks like GZ’s best hope for reasonable doubt.
“Repaired”?????
Does this mean you think GZ’s story for his innocence is broken and needs repairs? That’s not the way the concept of justice and truth, ideally our system, works, Layman.
Let’s revamp the accounts from the other possible scenario. You know, from the guy who can’t speak for himself because he never made it to his 18th birthday?
I’ll repeat:
Meanwhile, from Martin’s perspective: he has entered the NW corner of the neighborhood where he’s staying, stops while a car drives slowly by with a guy obviously giving him the eye when he does. He continues walking towards the clubhouse where that same car is now idling at the clubhouse. When he passes the car and turns to carry on down Twin Trees Lane, that same car now backs out and follows him and parks. He takes off running, and the person exits that car, seconds later, and follows him on foot.
Martin’s rounded the corner. Does he take shelter in the shadows (or “darkness”, as GZ puts it) to wait to see if Zimmerman followed? Hang yeah, he followed. Not only that, he stops right where TM may be sheltered, talks on the phone for another couple of minutes, then starts prowling around… only 100′ radius away.
Would you like to lead someone to your house? What do you want to do?
GZ moves temporarily out of sight going to the east… consistent with Dee’s account. So he comes out of the shadows, and GZ returns from his eastern jaunt and is, again, behind him and following.
You want to do the same thing as RT… try to portray that TM was at his doorstep when there was no evidence of it. What seems most likely is that he was “near” or “by”, compared to where he had been prior, and that GZ never left the vicinity long enough for him to make a dash home… two minutes on the phone finishing with the dispatcher, and two more minute prowling around the area. May well have been the longest last four minutes of a teen’s life.
Layman, while I’m waiting for AJ to discover that I have a comment in moderation INRE your “repair” and Dee testimony observation, you might want to wander over to O’Mara’s Legal GZ site, and selection the Feb 27th GZ interview with Serino, where they do exactly what I do above in comparing where GZ was in location during his dispatcher dialogue. The State has the same problem that I, myself, AJ and others have had since the start. And that’s why they have always wanted to at least charge him with manslaughter.
In that 24 hour old statement, GZ confirms, or says he’s not sure, the locations as it relates to that call. Odd considering that he seems so very confident in his video appearance, reenacting the events. on the same day. There is no way that his reenactment bears any resemblance to the actual events, once he reached his final parking destination, and after. His own dispatcher call disproves that, and forms the basis as to why Serino and other PD were skeptical from the start. However without the add’l evidence form the State investigation… which only happened after public outcry… the local prosecution couldn’t feel as certain with the limited evidence.
I’ll have to apologize to some on the Sanford PD, who I felt dropped the ball. They may have in some areas, but they definitely knew something was amiss.
Where did everyone go?
All the supporters of Zimmerman seem to have been struck mute now that his written, audio, and video statements have been released.
Mata laid out, in meticulous detail above, just a portion of the problems that O’Mara et al are going to have to overcome.
The State’s case for 2nd Degree Murder is now coming into focus.
Wherefore art the Zimmerman cheerleaders now that these damning pieces of evidence have been revealed?
The silence itself speaks volumes.
[…] to see one of my earliest suspicions pan out (which I did not post, but started to many times). Reader Mata Harley and others have also been hard at work assessing George Zimmerman’s shifting story line and […]
See my post on AJs newest thread regarding “repair”.
BGG: What a @#$%.
“Wherefore art the Zimmerman cheerleaders now that these damning pieces of evidence have been revealed?”
Since you are new to this game I’ve said since day one that GZ bears some responsibility for TM’s death. I think Manslaughter of something lesser is in order. I think Murder 2 is way out of line and will be hard to prove.
RT doesn’t need me to defend him – but all he’s been about in his posts is two things.
1) The media has been out to get GZ (the racist white hispanic)since the beginning, beginning with ABC and NBC editing audio etc. Not to mention the constant photos of angelic 12 year old TM compared to GZ’s old mug shot. Its been a hit job since the start because they like the narative. The rush to judgement has been horrific.
2) Political pressure, opportunism and hypocracy are corrupting the process. Once Sharpton, Jackson, and Holder stuck their noses in then the circus began. All I have to point out is the bounty offered by the NBPs and how it was ignored by the media and the law enforcement community.
Neither of these points has anything directly to do with guilt or innocence. They have to do with basic fairness and the rule of law.
I challenge anyone to try to disprove either of those two points.
Layman, I don’t doubt that the media has picked sides. But you can’t ignore that there is some media that has also picked the side of Zimmerman. One need only refer to the constant references from Dershowitz and Jeralyn Merritt to recognize that. Those pundits that have been on the GZ bandwagon have been assaulting the system as corrupt or, as Dershowitz himself notes, putting the government on trial for misconduct in order to defend a “guilty” defendant.
As to the political pressure, the racist argument is as nauseating to me as those that are demonizing Martin. I see little difference between the two.
However that political pressure is responsible for the investigation, rightly, being reopened. If the State did *not* file charges, then the system would be corrupt. As it is, the system is working exactly as it’s supposed to, but only after public outcry about an investigation prematurely cut short.
The NBPP? Scum bags and the feds should be doing something about them. But not with Holder at the helm. You’ll find no disagreement from me in that aspect. But it’s a sidebar to the State’s evidence, the need for a more thorough investigation than was done originally, and charges that should have been filed to begin with.