May 04 2012
Zimmerman’s Excuses Falling Apart
A good (but not perfect) tell for when someone is trying to cover up is how they ‘refine’ their story over time. And apparently someone is trying to refine Zimmerman’s claim that 17 year old Trayvon Martin – armed with a bag of Skittles – was a threat to George Zimmerman and, therefore, had to be killed. Here’s the new twist being ‘leaked’ to the media:
George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.
The source said Zimmerman’s account of events hasn’t changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen’s behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation.
I call BS on this. If George Z is so damn wigged out by Trayvon, why did he get out of his truck? Why did he reject the dispatcher’s direction to not follow Martin? Why was he so angry when he said over the 9-11 call:
“These assholes they always get away”
Is this why he grabbed his gun? So scared he rolled up the window, then grabbed his gun and chased the suspect behind buildings – out of sight of most people?
This is complete incoherence in terms of a rationale for an unnecessary death. A death that would have been avoided if George Zimmerman did not try and play policeman and chase Martin into a confrontation he ended up losing – until he pulled the gun and killed a good kid.
Sorry, but this little trial balloon is not helping Zimmerman at all. The story goes on to shoot (no pun intended) more holes in Zimmerman’s quickly concocted excuse:
One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during their fight on the night he shot Trayvon.
The Sentinel’s source confirmed that Zimmerman’s statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.
Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman’s gun, and the two struggled over it.
Those portions of Zimmerman’s account are not corroborated by other evidence, the source said.
I have always suspected the calls for help began when Zimmerman threatened Martin with his gun and Martin realized he was in real trouble. The right to stand your ground conveys to Martin as much as Zimmerman. More so if one realizes a kid being tracked by some lune in a truck is more threatening than a kid eating candy in a hoody. Who was experiencing the more threatening scenario?
Zimmerman is trying to claim it is him, but each time he does he argues against why he got out of the truck with his gun. Martin had the right to stand his ground – and Zimmerman killed him when he did.
AJs comments have caused me to rethink the situation and the reality is obvious.
1. Zimmerman went to warp speed (or had himself transported/beamed) so he could get infront of the fleeing Martin.
2. He laid in wait and then used the Vulcan nerve pinch to render Martin helpless.
3. He then had the two of them tranported/beamed back to the sidewalk area where the crime occured.
4. He placed the unconscious Martin on top of himself then banged his own head a few times on the concrete for effect.
5. Dazed, but still nefariously in control of the situation, he next garbbed the still unconscious Martin by his ears, headbutted himself breaking his own nose, and then began calling out for help.
5. He pulled his gun and shot the still unconscious Martin in cold blood.
6. He then claimed self defense – which we know is ridiculous.
AJ: Thanks for helping me to clear things up.
My last comment is awaiting moderation even tho the word s-o-ci-a-list is not in it. Weird how that works.
Layman, you fail to account for how Martin was hollering for help while he was unconscious with his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth. You’re gonna need to clear that up for us..
This is a quote: “The Justice Department is now investigating whether any federal civil rights laws were violated in Martin’s death at the hands of a neighborhood watch captain in Florida. The suspect, George Zimmerman, says he shot the 17-year-old black teenager in self-defense. The case has rallied civil rights activists, who blasted police for not immediately charging Zimmerman with a crime.”
Then read the last sentence again:”The case has rallied civil rights activists, who blasted police for not immediately charging Zimmerman with a crime.”
When is a ‘civil rights activists’ actually a ‘civil rights activist’?
this reads as if only one person had civil rights in this case. Is Zimmerman innocent until proven guilty or is this just an arcane principle that has run it’s course and the new standard is guilty until all legal tricks run out and there is no chance of a conviction?
Well, I’m gonna stick with the constitution and at least give everyone involved all the ‘civil rights’ and presumption of innocence they are entitled to.
Layman, that is the dumbest straw man of all time!
Clearly a sign of failure on your part.
Thanks for the laugh! I feel even more confident Zimmerman is a cocky fool with a gun who got his ass in trouble playing sheriff.
Redteam,
I see you are still obsessed with the politics and not the facts.
You’re pissed leftist got angry over the death of a kid and can’t get over it.
Note how I don’t pull in any politics – just Zimmerman and his hosed up alibis, and the unarmed kid talking to his girlfriend eating skiddles.
Any of you junior Perry Masons got motive on Martin? I mean Zimmerman confessed his motive in real time to the 911 dispatch. He was after bad guys!
And what is this about one time saying “suspicious”, one time saying “black” and one time saying ‘late teen’ on the 911 call? This is not a huge problem for Zimmerman?
Folks, anyone remember Zimmerman’s apology in court – where he claimed he thought Martin was in his mid 20’s? If there is a 911 tape of Zimmerman guessing Martin was in his late teens, you have successfully shown Zimmerman to be a horrible liar!
Thanks again for making my case…
Actually, I haven’t convicted either party in my mind, I think a jury is capable of making a decision on actual facts, not suppositions.
describing Martin as suspicious, black and late teen is not contradictory. He could have also described him (which he did) as wearing a hoodie, approaching his truck and some other things without being contradictory. Now if he said he is black and white, that would be a contradiction.
“anyone remember Zimmerman’s apology in court – where he claimed he thought Martin was in his mid 20?s? If there is a 911 tape of Zimmerman guessing Martin was in his late teens, you have successfully shown Zimmerman to be a horrible liar!”
He described Martin as appearing to be a late teen ager early in his 911 call. After the confrontation and death, he thought he might be in his mid 20’s. People change their mind regularly after they have had a better look and/or more time to assess the situation. I wouldn’t even think that would put him in a liar category. Changing your mind after a better observation is just that, a change in judgment.
Do you have any knowledge of who your ‘anonymous’ source is? Why are you willing to accept the opinion of someone that won’t even reveal his name?
“Thanks again for making my case…” I’m not sure what that means. I haven’t made a case for either person. I am not privy to all the evidence so am not able to make a judgment of guilt or innocence. I’m willing to let justice take it’s natural course, but, as I have said, I have not heard anything that would convict either party and unless something is out there that hasn’t been revealed, there is not a chance of a conviction of Zimmerman.
“I call BS on this. If George Z is so damn wigged out by Trayvon, why did he get out of his truck? Why did he reject the dispatcher’s direction to not follow Martin?”
Please listen to the unredacted 911 call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o9A-gp8mrdw
He doesn’t get out of his truck until the dispatcher asks him which way Trayvon is running. He gets out to see which way he is headed. Once the dispatcher tells Zimmerman he doesn’t need him to follow TM, Zimmerman not only stops following him, but loses sight of him. Zimmerman is even afraid to give the dispatcher his home address b/c Zimmerman is afraid TM might be listening, b/c he doesn’t know where he is.
Zimmerman is not clear on exactly where he is, and is unable to give exact directions for the police to find him, so he asks the dispatcher to give the officer his cell phone number so he can help the officer find him when he gets there.
Zimmerman’s later statement is that after he hung up he went to look for a street sign so he could give the officer a more accurate/clear direction to his location. After listening to his call, that is very believable. IMHO.
Also, in every other incident where he had called 911 (actually it was the non emergency number) he had never once confronted anyone. His MO was always to wait for the police.
A belated thanks, AJ, for the comment on NASA-I just checked back today…
Marsh,
heard it and you seem to be filing in blanks that you have no evidence for.
For example, Zimmerman leaves and DOES NOT stop (keeps breathing heavy has he moves to the back of the buildings.
Yes he does lose Martin. No, he does not go back to his truck. Yes, he is armed (and my guess is the gun is out).
Look, Zimmerman has no right to arm himself and confront Martin. Sorry to wake you to this little fact, but that is the law. When Zimmerman armed himself and went looking for Martin (he admits doing this, so please spare me the BS), he is in violation of the law.
You may THINK you can arm yourself and then confront someone in public – but you cannot. And that is why the “stand your ground” defense is MARTIN’s!
Duh. Zimmerman was doomed the minute he took his gun out of the truck and went behind the buildings, and then in between.
If you follow his path (first past the path between the buildings, and then doubles back to go down between them) you see someone ‘hunting’.
Martin is still on the phone with his girlfriend freaking out.
Here’s what I bet the police likely have – they have Martin telling his girlfriend a nut with a gun is after him. Knowing what I know about Zimmerman (and his ilk – playing cop) he has the gun out the entire time. If this is true forget about Zimmerman – he is toast.
But then, he was toast when he armed himself and went looking for Martin. That is when he dipped into manslaughter. His anger in his voice with 911 pushes him into 2nd degree murder.
You want to know what will happen? Zimmerman will panic as the court date arrives (his need to play cop exposes his true insecurity). He pleads on manslaughter (as he should).
This ain’t complicated.
ivhadit, no problem. Sorry took me so long.
Check this out for more. It was a decade of mismanagement by incompetent bureaucrats and some companies who just sold them a total bill of goods (IMHO).
“Zimmerman has no right to arm himself and confront Martin.”</i?
So, you're saying that Martin kept this gun in his truck, rather than on him? And, that he grabbed this weapon and went out to basically to hunt Martin down?
I don't own a gun, but if I did, I wouldn't stash it in a vehicle. Instead, it would be locked up in my home, and I would take it out and carry it when I felt I needed it. If Zimmerman was on some kind of 'watch duty' that night, in the midst of his neighborhood experiencing a wave of break-ins, then it would be appropriate for him to have a licensed weapon on hand should he run into trouble. I don't see that as some kind of crazed act.
It seems to me, AJ, like you are getting into both Zimmerman's head, as well as Martin's, in painting a behavioral picture of what you know happened. And, that’s where I think errors are being made, as this thing is only being pieced together by fragments of information, some of which are false.
“they have Martin telling his girlfriend a nut with a gun is after him. Knowing what I know about Zimmerman (and his ilk – playing cop) “
Did Martin tell his girlfriend that someone was following him with a gun? Or, did Martin tell his girlfriend that someone was just following him period? Because, unless Zimmerman was holding the gun, or waving it around, how could Martin know that Zimmerman even had a gun?
Again, you’re the one who seems to be filling in the blanks more than others are. I, for one, am not convinced of Zimmerman’s guilt in ruthlessly gunning Martin down. All I know is that he shot and killed Martin, but the circumstances around that act are still murky and conflicted.
“Look, Zimmerman has no right to arm himself ”
I was under the impression that if you have a CCP that gives you the right to have a firearm. Am I mistaken?
AJ:
Glad you had a good laugh. It was SUPPOSED to be stupid. I was trying to point out that there are lots of conflicting statements and opinions out there but very little truth. Everybody, from Al Sharpton to AJ Strata seems to be filling in the blanks based on their own preset filters.
If I make a statement about the “armed convict” do you take that as meaning a convict who has arms (appendages) or a convict who has a firearm? Can be read either way, right? So interpretation and pre-installed filters lead us to hear the case and immediately decide that either Zimmerman was a crazy wannbe cop or a law abiding citizen.
Until the case goes to the jury, and ALL the facts ar out, then we are all just speculating. Speculation on an opinion blog is great, but let’s all remember what it is we’re doing.
“For example, Zimmerman leaves and DOES NOT stop (keeps breathing heavy has he moves to the back of the buildings.”
I read some where that he has asthma, so continuing to breath heavy for a few seconds after running is not that unusual. But, clearly by the end of the tape, he is no longer chasing him b/c he has lost sight of him and is speaking in a normal voice.
” (and my guess is the gun is out).” There is not one shred of evidence that this was true. Nor does he have a reputation of confronting anyone he has ever called 911 about. That is not his MO.
“When Zimmerman armed himself and went looking for Martin (he admits doing this, so please spare me the BS), he is in violation of the law.”
Zimmerman said he had armed himself before he ever saw TM. He was on his way to the grocery store when he saw TM. As far as I can see no law was broken. Unless as you suggest, Zimmerman had pulled his gun while following TM.
If Zimmerman was chasing TM w/ his gun drawn, why didn’t TM call 911 himself?
Does it make sense that an unarmed kid would even attempt punching a man w/ a gun, in the face, let alone actually succeed at it?
Moreover, why didn’t any of the screams say, “Don’t shoot!” or “He’s got a gun!” ?
If TM was successful at knocking a man w/ a gun on his ass, wouldn’t you expect that he’d try to grab Zimmerman’s gun and not his head?
“You may THINK you can arm yourself and then confront someone in public – but you cannot.”
If your gun is concealed, it is not illegal to ask someone what they are doing.
“Martin is still on the phone with his girlfriend freaking out.”
Then why did he go up to Zimmerman and stare him down if TM was freaking out?
“For example, Zimmerman leaves and DOES NOT stop (keeps breathing heavy has he moves to the back of the buildings.”
You are clearly listening to a ‘different’ unredacted tape than I have heard. When he first starts following his breathing gets very heavy, once the dispatcher says “we don’t need you to do that” he clearly stops running and his breathing is back to a normal pattern in less than 30 seconds.
He leaves truck, door slams at 2:14, starts breathing heavier, dispatcher says we don’t need you to do that at 2:28, by 2:50 his breathing is completely normal and is carrying on a conversation with dispatcher. Martin started running at 2:08. It was maybe 30 seconds from where he was to his apartment if Martin was running. He was no where around when the calll ended at 4:05. The shooting took place nearer to the Zimmerman’s truck than to Martin’s apartment. So for the almost 2 minutes that Martin was ‘running’ to his apartment, where was he actually running to? I won’t speculate, I don’t know.
here is the tape I’m listening to: http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back
Redteam
Here is a later post from the same site, wagist, which also includes the calls etc. It’s pretty comprehensive.
The missing 2:30 & DeeDees testimony
LOL!
So all you folks who *think* Zimmerman stopped chasing have no facts… Just some lack of breathing??
As I suspected. Making it up as you lose ground.
The fact is Zimmerman armed himself and started chasing Martin – who is NOT required to go home. He is not required to do anything except walk around unmolested at 7 PM at night. Anyone who thinks it was Martin’s responsibility to get away from Zimmerman is being silly
Try this little thought experiment: Regardless of race, etc, if you were wandering around a friend’s neighborhood on the phone do you think I have the right to come up to you armed and demand anything of you?
I have no idea where some folks get their legal basis, but one thing you have to start from is Trayvon’s right to walk and talk on the phone, and then you have to accept Zimmerman was NOT empowered in any sense to use or threaten deadly force.
Asthma? Really? That is why it was OK to kill a 17 year old kid?
On what planet does that make sense???
Jan & RT,
Yeah, the report is comprehensive – and it is open to lots of legitimate scenarios. Like the fact Zimmerman walks past the path behind the buildings to the opposite parking area, only to double back towards his truck.
One reasonable scenario is Martin does not see Zimmerman follow him in between the buildings. So he thinks it is safe (a reasonable assumption given the time lapse, and a legitimate assumption for a kid walking in a gated community he belonged in).
So how is it Martin and Zimmerman make it to F way down between the buildings if Zimmerman is heading to his truck which is straight across from E to C?
Remember, Martin stayed between the buildings, not going to his house, and decided to keep talking to his girlfriend. Now many minutes have passed and Zimmerman is on the opposite side from where Martin last saw him. He may not even know he is now to the right, not to the left were the truck is still parked.
Zimmerman had to see Martin down in between the buildings and gone after him. No other reason he takes a hard left turn AWAY from his truck.
Martin is right where he should be, coming back from his house – thinking the lunatic was gone. Zimmerman is not where his story says he should be.
Too bad Martin was wrong. Zimmerman still guilty because the confrontation he instigated led to an unnecessary death
AJ:
Puuuuulllllleeeezzzzeeeee!!!!!
“Asthma? Really? That is why it was OK to kill a 17 year old kid?”
No one said that. She gave it as a POSSIBLE explanation why it took his breathing a few minutes to return to normal – after you had made the claim that Zimmerman kept chasing Martin – to which there is no proof.
CALM DOWN! Please.
“Asthma? Really? That is why it was OK to kill a 17 year old kid?”
On what planet could one think THAT was the point I was making when I said, “I read some where that he has asthma, so continuing to breath heavy for a few seconds after running is not that unusual.”?????